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Lemond23

How do NG pilots know when to put flaps?

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Is there a technique, a procedure or something they follow? Or do pilots follow their own intuition and experience?Thanks,Teo Halfen

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Just keep an eye on your speed tape. If you've configured the aircraft correctly, all the speeds will be announced there.

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Check out the tutorial that Ryan has written, pretty good guidelines in there. As far as when, there are various speed constraints per different flap settings. I usually use the speed tape as a guide as it has little tickmarks (for example "1") when you should put the flaps up to 1 after takeoff. You can consult the operating manuals for more in depth information.As far as real world ops, I'm sure there are some NG pilots in here that could help...


Brandon Burkley
 

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To give you an idea on take off you would select Flaps 1 at V2+15 and Select Flaps UP at 1. On landing you would usually select Flaps 1 downwind or approaching base at about 220 - 210 kts slow down to about 180 knots and flaps 5 turning final then gear down and flaps 15 capturing glideslope select Vapp for Flap30 and select Flap 30 on the 15 tape mark. There are variations to this but this is fairly usual.

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Is there a technique, a procedure or something they follow? Or do pilots follow their own intuition and experience?Thanks,Teo Halfen
Flying as a passenger in Norway (where most aircrafts are 737ng`s), Ive observed many times over how they sometimes just "drop" everything they have as quick as possible, while other timesits more "by the textbook". It all comes down to whether your on a visual, ils cat2 in minimums or a straight in approach regardless of type. At railway engineer school, I went to class with an ex-NG pilot from Scandinavian Airlines. (believe you me, i spent the whole year talking more about flying than driving trains;-)-He told me that the first few years flying the NG, pilots often came in hot and high, dropping their gears and hurtling flaps down and sometimes they where not stable until 300-500 ft agl.Later on Sas did a procedure on it, so now a days its "1000 stabilized" almost no matter what. (meaning gear down and flaps 30/40 for landing, aligned with the runway at 1000 ft AGL.)Gear down between 1500-1800 is "normal", but then again, it seems to depend on the situation your in.

Yngve Giljebrekke
ENZV NSB
 

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I haven't read the entire article yet but I think Mike Ray has written something along what you are looking for in the free version of "Computer Pilot" from AVSIM's front page.I have two of Mike's books, several of his articles and cannot wait for his NG book.HTH,Jim

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Is there a technique, a procedure or something they follow? Or do pilots follow their own intuition and experience?Thanks,Teo Halfen
The Vspeeds at takeoff and the landing Ref speeds for landing.You set your speed to the flap setting as seen on the speed tape on the PFD.(If you arm VNAV before takeoff it will select your flap speeds for you.)Since the introduction of the PFD and ND displays years ago, selecting flaps became simple.During takeoff, when you see flap 5 aligned with the current speed you select flaps 1. when you see flaps 1 you select flaps UP.During Approach, when you are at the UP speed you can extend flaps 1. At flaps 1 you extend flaps 5. Hold the flaps 5 speed until the glideslope starts to move downand then, landing gear down and flaps 15. Hold the flaps 15 speed until you are totally configured to land. ( Arm the Speedbrakes and Autobrakes )....................Select flaps 30 and reduce your speed to REF + 5. ( just park the speed bug on top of the green REF on the speed tape.)That is just a very general guide but a good one to learn. It should do for most lands,Fred.

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The Vspeeds at takeoff and the landing Ref speeds for landing.You set your speed to the flap setting as seen on the speed tape on the PFD.If you arm VNAV before takeoff it will select your flap speeds for you.Since the introduction of the PFD and ND displays years ago, selecting flaps became simple.During takeoff, when you see flap 5 aligned with the current speed you select flaps 1. when you see flaps 1 you select flaps UP.During Approach, when you are at the UP speed you can extend flaps 1. At flaps 1 you extend flaps 5. Hold the flaps 5 speed until the glideslope starts to move downand then, landing gear down and flaps 15. Hold the flaps 15 speed until you are totally configured to land. ( Arm the Speedbrakes and Autobrakes )....................Select flaps 30 and reduce your speed to REF + 5. ( just park the speed bug on top of the green REF on the speed tape.)That is just a very general guide but a good one to learn. It should do for most lands,Fred.
Simple and clear.. Thank you Sir!

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Also, remember that like most airliners, if you bust a flap speed (extend flaps when flying faster than the airspeed limit for any flap setting), you will have triggered a substantial maintenance check on the aircraft. You might not be too popular......Thanks, Bruce.

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Is there a technique, a procedure or something they follow? Or do pilots follow their own intuition and experience?Thanks,Teo Halfen
They read FCOM, FTCM sometimes.

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Flying as a passenger in Norway (where most aircrafts are 737ng`s), Ive observed many times over how they sometimes just "drop" everything they have as quick as possible, while other timesits more "by the textbook". It all comes down to whether your on a visual, ils cat2 in minimums or a straight in approach regardless of type.At railway engineer school, I went to class with an ex-NG pilot from Scandinavian Airlines. (believe you me, i spent the whole year talking more about flying than driving trains;-)-He told me that the first few years flying the NG, pilots often came in hot and high, dropping their gears and hurtling flaps down and sometimes they where not stable until 300-500 ft agl.Later on Sas did a procedure on it, so now a days its "1000 stabilized" almost no matter what. (meaning gear down and flaps 30/40 for landing, aligned with the runway at 1000 ft AGL.)Gear down between 1500-1800 is "normal", but then again, it seems to depend on the situation your in.
1000 stabilized means that:-FMA modes annunciation verified by both pilots.-PF: confirm FLARE ARMED on EADI (FMA), check stabilized approach, follow throttles-PM: at 1000 feet check FLARE ARMED on FMA and announce.Gear down between 1500-1800Gear retraction is not associated with height. On simple ILS approach it's retracted when the glide slope alive (entering the G/S path)

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start with the approach files you find in the FCOM. Then when you become familiar with those and have them memorized, you can now adapt the profiles for the the way the airplane needs to be flown.ie.are you being vectored for a really short approachare you being vectored for a really long finaldo you need to do the course reversal on a non-precision approach?the profiles are meant as guidelines. they are not going to fit exactly in every situation you find yourself in.I have been on flights where we have been vectored onto final very close to the FAF. the CA called for the gear and landing flaps well before what the profile called for.my point is......be a pilot and make the decisions according to the situation....dont let the book make the decision for you.


FAA: ATP-ME

Matt kubanda

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There's an excellent article in the latest PC Pilot edition by Mike Ray, free.For environmental and financial reasons, the practice of a continuous descent path with delayed flap extension is gradually becoming a wordwide standard.

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I feel more confortable landing with flaps 30 even if the FMC states 40.Am I doing wrong ? I don't think so because with flap 30 I usually avoid or smooth the bouncing effect.

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1000 stabilized means that:-FMA modes annunciation verified by both pilots.-PF: confirm FLARE ARMED on EADI (FMA), check stabilized approach, follow throttles-PM: at 1000 feet check FLARE ARMED on FMA and announce.Gear down between 1500-1800Gear retraction is not associated with height. On simple ILS approach it's retracted when the glide slope alive (entering the G/S path)
I did not talk about retraction, and I suppose you ment gear extension? But if you enter the G/S path at higher altitudes (3000-4000 feet) youd be slowing everyone down in a busy airspace and it would not be very economical?Also, the "1000 stabilized" in Sas had nothing to do with FLARE ARMED on FMA, because this means that you got both CMD A and B, ILS freq on NAV1 and 2, i.e set for a CAT2 approach in minimum conditions. "1000 stabilized" was used on visual approaches as well in Sas, but this does not mean that you are wrong, im just saying what I learned from my colleague.

Yngve Giljebrekke
ENZV NSB
 

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