How do NG pilots know when to put flaps?

[morbidreich 0]

There's an excellent article in the latest PC Pilot edition by Mike Ray, free.For environmental and financial reasons, the practice of a continuous descent path with delayed flap extension is gradually becoming a wordwide standard.

Any chance for a link? Can't find on their website.

[Spin737 102]

I feel more confortable landing with flaps 30 even if the FMC states 40.Am I doing wrong ? I don't think so because with flap 30 I usually avoid or smooth the bouncing effect.

Flaps 30 is fine especially for longer runways. The jet burns less fuel on final because of less drag so it's more economical.

I did not talk about retraction, and I suppose you ment gear extension? But if you enter the G/S path at higher altitudes (3000-4000 feet) youd be slowing everyone down in a busy airspace and it would not be very economical?Also, the "1000 stabilized" in Sas had nothing to do with FLARE ARMED on FMA, because this means that you got both CMD A and B, ILS freq on NAV1 and 2, i.e set for a CAT2 approach in minimum conditions. "1000 stabilized" was used on visual approaches as well in Sas, but this does not mean that you are wrong, im just saying what I learned from my colleague.

You're right; stabilized approach is more along the lines of properly configured, aligned with the runway of intended landing, rate of descent is less than 1000fpm, and airspeed is on the approach speed. 1000' for IMC conditions and 500' for VMC.

[maf 10]

You're right; stabilized approach is more along the lines of properly configured, aligned with the runway of intended landing, rate of descent is less than 1000fpm, and airspeed is on the approach speed. 1000' for IMC conditions and 500' for VMC.

500 for VMC`? I learn something new everyday:-)

[Jet_Airliner 0]

I did not talk about retraction, and I suppose you ment gear extension? But if you enter the G/S path at higher altitudes (3000-4000 feet) youd be slowing everyone down in a busy airspace and it would not be very economical?Also, the "1000 stabilized" in Sas had nothing to do with FLARE ARMED on FMA, because this means that you got both CMD A and B, ILS freq on NAV1 and 2, i.e set for a CAT2 approach in minimum conditions. "1000 stabilized" was used on visual approaches as well in Sas, but this does not mean that you are wrong, im just saying what I learned from my colleague.

Yes, I meant extension :) So, If you just passing 1000 feet, all frequencies are set and manual, but the flare mode did not arm, you still going to say stable? Olso I am not impressed, the you said that you have to check frequencies before passing 1000 feet. You have to set them for ils already on landing briefing, and set to manual on approach.Other words, why checking on 1000 feet, if on this height you already using ils for a long time.

[Jet_Airliner 0]

But if you enter the G/S path at higher altitudes (3000-4000 feet) youd be slowing everyone down in a busy airspace and it would not be very economical?

You have to extend the gear on the IAF. If you were vectored on final course or the STAR gets you on final before IAF you retract it simply on IAF. end of story :)

[Spin737 102]

Yes, I meant extension :)So, If you just passing 1000 feet, all frequencies are set and manual, but the flare mode did not arm, you still going to say stable?Olso I am not impressed, the you said that you have to check frequencies before passing 1000 feet. You have to set them for ils already on landing briefing, and set to manual on approach.Other words, why checking on 1000 feet, if on this height you already using ils for a long time.

Correct - you should make sure that you have the correct frequencies identified before you join the localizer (long before the stabilized approach).

You have to extend the gear on the IAF. If you were vectored on final course or the STAR gets you on final before IAF you retract it simply on IAF. end of story :)

Uhhhhh. What?

[maf 10]

Yes, I meant extension :)So, If you just passing 1000 feet, all frequencies are set and manual, but the flare mode did not arm, you still going to say stable?Olso I am not impressed, the you said that you have to check frequencies before passing 1000 feet. You have to set them for ils already on landing briefing, and set to manual on approach.Other words, why checking on 1000 feet, if on this height you already using ils for a long time.

Huh??? What are you talking about? I never said anything about not checking freqs before passing 1000ft with the intention to land... I know they set them long before your on final approach.. duh..I dont think you got me right, and youre just confusing what I meant at first. I only said that FMA will say "FLARE ARMED" when the MCP and radio stack is configured for an autoland..You said that "1000 stabilized" has got to do with the FMA modes, and that may very well be so, but different airlines do different procedures. What is normal for Scandinavian Airlinesto do in certain parts of the flight, may not be so for American Airlines and so on..Ive been in the jumpseat on 737 flights with Sas, and the PM would announce "1000 feet, stabilized" on any type of approach that I witnessed (which was mostly visuals..)

You have to extend the gear on the IAF. If you were vectored on final course or the STAR gets you on final before IAF you retract it simply on IAF. end of story :)

Yes.. as above.. What?.. Theres no manual in the world that dictates where pilots MUST extend their gear during an approach. There are many techniques in how to land an airplane depending on if your flying a full instrument approach or a visual one for that matter. This is at pilots discretion or company procedure if you will. I know pilots canextend gear even before they`ll go flaps 1, simply because they`re coming in too fast and too high... So no, not end of story.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

You have to extend the gear on the IAF. If you were vectored on final course or the STAR gets you on final before IAF you retract it simply on IAF. end of story :)

I know several airlines who would be very ticked off if you wrote the rulebook. FAF, maybe (as a procedure, not a rule), but IAF? No.Example: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1111/05100IL1R.PDFIf ATC clears me for the full approach across Casanova (CSN), you're telling me I have to drag gear for 33 miles?Yngve, the way the terrain is there in Norway, I can see why they stay a little high and dump flap and gear to get a steeper approach in. I've only ever flown into Stavanger a few times there, which is reasonably flat, so I haven't experienced it to comment on the rest.

[rocketfs 2]

I learned -from a RW 737 NG pilot- to put a 10 mile circle (fix page) around the aerodrome of destination. Before reaching this circle, you should be at flaps 1. This to avoid a high energy approach.Bert Van Bulck

[maf 10]

Yngve, the way the terrain is there in Norway, I can see why they stay a little high and dump flap and gear to get a steeper approach in. I've only ever flown into Stavanger a few times there, which is reasonably flat, so I haven't experienced it to comment on the rest.

Yup, flat like a pancake here:-). On approaches into ENTC RWY19 visual, the "dump all you got" was the way they did it many times over as I witnessed seated at the wing, and often they did it while turning to final approach.. Its too much fun when they do it that way, cause you can really feel how all the drag that comes at once just tickles you in the stomach by the sheer loss of speed.

I learned -from a RW 737 NG pilot- to put a 10 mile circle (fix page) around the aerodrome of destination. Before reaching this circle, you should be at flaps 1. This to avoid a high energy approach.Bert Van Bulck

And i know a lot of pilots have such rules of thumb. Take Clayton Taylor for instance, whos written many a piece for Airways magazine in his column. He once wrote (while being an A330 FO) thatthe general rule he had, was to be at 10K ft 30nm out. That was his way of doing it from time to time. And one time he wrote about how he was way to low, looooooong before final approach, and howthe captain just had a weird grin on his face.There are many ways to do it, but every AC company like Boeing, Airbus etc. will always have manuals telling you the way to do it best, and the companys will be able to deviate from that again dependingon where in the world they fly.Try doing a 737 FCTM approach with a Concorde, or see how smart it is to have gear down at IAF with a concorde, which would be alot worse!!... just saying,..

[boblyons 0]

Any chance for a link? Can't find on their website.

It's Computer Pilot, not PC Pilot - http://www.computerpilot.com/Bob Lyons