Besides, I can always wait for the sale right?

Yeah, the clearance sale :(

And he shot himself in the foot.b- some others will go the piratebay route.

Wow, to complain about a companies perceived lack of character and perceived unethical business practices and then to go that route speaks volumes about their character, or severe lack thereof.

To be fair to Orbx, they do give away some great 'freebies'.Although not related to this issue specifically, it is worth noting.

Yes that is a good business practice, good marketing of their skills.

b- some others will go the piratebay route.

No. Wrong. Flat-out wrong. That's not what anybody is advocating here.And I don't think anyone here is out to hurt anyone. For me the purchasing decision is a matter of, do I get pleasure from the purchase or not? At the moment, no. Later, maybe. As I said above, others, especially those who've never experienced the products, should definitely consider buying.

Who, in thier right mind, is going to pay for, that kind of customer service?.....not me..Time to replace the high and mighty customer service dude, before they have no customers to serve.''Dont know what you got till it's gone'' rings bells..., and ORBX are certainly taking their customers for granted.

No. Wrong. Flat-out wrong. That's not what anybody is advocating here.And I don't think anyone here is out to hurt anyone.

Not sure.I'm not suggesting you will go that route. I think that the result of his behavior will be loss of sales. Some simmers will not buy anymore some others will rather go the piratebay route than give him any of their hard earned.Once bitten twice shy kind of like.

Who, in thier right mind, is going to pay for, that kind of customer service?.....not me..Time to replace the high and mighty customer service dude, before they have no customers to serve.''Dont know what you got till it's gone'' rings bells..., and ORBX are certainly taking their customers for granted.

He's not the 'customer service dude' .....he is the CEO!

pfff! well that says it all then really doesnt it..

Time to replace the high and mighty customer service dude

Guys, as an AVSIM moderator (not in MS FSX Forum though :(), I kindly request you to refrain from such remarks.Thank you.

I believe what we are witnessing here is a company that has made a quite serious mistake. We all understand and would acknowledge that mistakes will be made. Whether that mistake was made intentionally or inadvertently is of little importance to some and a matter of critical importance to others as these ten plus pages of postings reveal. It has become necessary for those of us who are Orbx patrons to attempt to compartmentalize our feelings as we try to make sense of what has happened. On one hand, my feelings are the product Orbx offers us is first-rate. I speak only for me, of course. I have used their products for some time now and I possess all of their North American products including the eight most recent offerings and so I have some experience with Orbx and their scenery products. On the other hand, I am saddened by what I believe to be an error in judgement on the part of the company and what appears to me to be the inability on the part of that entity to take the necessary positive steps to rectify that error.The result of all of this could conceivably be the tainting of the reputation of a stable of wonderful scenery products much appreciated by a significant portion of us who enjoy this hobby. As we lament the wayward direction this company has chosen to follow and we voice those many understandable protestations, they are heard and witnessed by all of those newer and less experienced simmers who have yet to avail themselves of these great products. We can only hope each will have the good sense to try them and make his own judgement as to their ability to enhance the quality of his flightsimming experience. In my mind, all of this represents a wonderful example of just how fast things can get out of hand when a company makes a mistake and remains unable to effectively and expeditiously rectify that mistake. I fear Orbx is in great jeopardy of forfeiting years of effort as it worked to build and maintain the goodwill most of us recognized. I fail to understand how that danger can not be perceived by management.Enough - I yield the soapbox.John

EDITAh, never mind, it isn't worth it.

A small chunk out of something I posted on another forum, back in November - also about something John had said to an upset customer..."JV should stay in the background, leaving PR work to people that understand "the communications business". He is a great programmer first and foremost, and granted, he has a good ear for business and organization too, but he should stick to that end of it, and not get involved in the forums.Any perceived 'slight' is tactlessly jumped upon with all the vigour of Churchill lambasting "that little corporal". It's too bad, but most/many technicians are like this. Talk to the Salesman or Sales Manager - not the idiot who just fixed/didn't fix your washing machine. Honey works: vinegar doesn't."I was on the point of CRM and New Zealand, and looking forward to the UK series... but not now. The flight sim is a hobby - an extension of my 'aviation hobby' - and it's not so important that I have to deal with or buy from someone whom I don't particularly like any more. People change and attitudes change, and many folks will cut off their noses to spite their face - yes it's stupid, but people do that.This post has been promoted to an article

A small chunk out of something I posted on another forum, back in November - also about something John had said to an upset customer..."JV should stay in the background, leaving PR work to people that understand "the communications business". He is a great programmer first and foremost, and granted, he has a good ear for business and organization too, but he should stick to that end of it, and not get involved in the forums.Any perceived 'slight' is tactlessly jumped upon with all the vigour of Churchill lambasting "that little corporal". It's too bad, but most/many technicians are like this. Talk to the Salesman or Sales Manager - not the idiot who just fixed/didn't fix your washing machine. Honey works: vinegar doesn't."I was on the point of CRM and New Zealand, and looking forward to the UK series... but not now. The flight sim is a hobby - an extension of my 'aviation hobby' - and it's not so important that I have to deal with or buy from someone whom I don't particularly like any more. People change and attitudes change, and many folks will cut off their noses to spite their face - yes it's stupid, but people do that.

Very well described Paul. I too met many in the technical area's of my previous career, and I too found that many of the technical types lack the patience and understanding at a customer/sales level. Sometimes I think that programmers/designers are too close to what they do and are very protective, and comments from others are sometimes misconstrued and taken as a personal attack.Bob

I can't seem to gain access to that article, Paul. Is there a reason for this?

I posted something yesterday and removed it later on because (as I said) 'it isn't worth it'. However, I received PM's from 3 different people about that post from members who had read it in the meantime. I thought about reposting it but my computer locked up before I could and everything was gone. This morning I received another PM from one of those 3 and he had copied my post and hinted I should maybe repost it. So here it is anyway.I didn't want to post anything here because I thought that if I wanted to say about this all I should do so on the Orbx forum. I only posted what I did yesterday to defend some er... accusations. After giving it A LOT of thought I decided to post again on the Orbx forum this evening. I just noticed the topic in which I posted something has been deleted... And the only topic that was left to talk in about the 2012 plans has been locked.So I guess that my time over there is over. I don't feel like posting there no more, at least not for some time. It is a commercial forum and they are free of course to delete whatever they want, but still, it's a shame that someone who is proud of his heritage (Dutch) and proud of being blunt and cutting the crap and no BS can't take the same himself, even when all this is done in a polite and calm manner. (I am talking about my last post there. ^_^Some personal conclusions, so far:- of course there will be sales of Orbx products. Maybe not by Orbx themselves but certainly by others. Orbx has a history of saying this and doing that and turning back decisions, so... no fears there. It's never wise for a company to use words like 'never' and 'ever' and Orbx has proven they have no problems doing so. Yesterday John said there would be more sales, today he said the opposite; in 2009 he said pre-paying was over on their forum and within now time people were pre-paying again; yesterday John said that Orbx never used pre-pay to fund development, in 2009 he started a poll if people were willing to pre-pay (for a period up to 4 months) in order to fund the development of NZ (which didn't happen btw). Etc. etc.This isn't strange: it's normal that a company changes strategy or point of view. What IS strange is the denial of previous strategies and point of views.I will still keep an eye on Orbx products and I will still advice people to get them because they are great. However, I will not say anymore that their support is great. Which is a shame because their support IS great, but just a few things are a bit wrong and one of them is the attitude towards customers of (just some) people (or one person, maybe) which IS part of support. This isn't a problem at all, though: I can still enjoy the Orbx scenery without even getting near the forum.I will only buy what I want, but that's what I usually do. I did buy KCHM as some sort of thank you for giving us the Day/Night switcher, but I already thought about getting PNW complete. However, I do think I will be more reluctant and think twice before I buy something I am not sure of. I will probably wait for a sale. ^_^Well, it's been nice over there but this is it, I am afraid. I have to say I myself am quite surprised I kept supporting Orbx this long after the experience I had in 2009 (which had a LOT in common with what has happened now). But well, FTX is too good to pass on. Go get it while it's on sale... You will find a lot of nice and helpful people on their forum. But post with care. And remember that you can enjoy FTX without getting near the forum!