... but the concept of having to join Windows Live to play their game makes me want to vomit and gives me great pause....Best regards,Jim

I dont get it. Why would you care about that?

but the concept of having to join Windows Live to play their game makes me want to vomit and gives me great pause....

Totally agree with Jimmy. Totally.I will absolutely hate having to "join", or to pay a monthly subscription to run the FS - mattor af fact, I'll tell you right now - I'll be back building and flying radio control before I subscribe to Flight. I want to "play" with 'my' toys, where I want, when I want, and with addons that I had a choice in: I sure as heck do not want to fly in Hawaii, in a b***** Stearman. (no offense to Stearman lovers). If I want to fly Ant's TM - then that's want I want to fly - same with VATSIM, Leonardo's Maddog, or the DigitalThemePark.OrbX - Hurry up and finish off the West Coast, USA.

Edited January 5, 201214 yr by Paul J

.... don't thing MS pay more attention to FS9 or even FSX, than Toyota to their 93 Camry, let's face it those products are obsolete , their shelves life is over, passe' ( I know, I know, we are emotionally, and financially attached ....), have know idea what Flight is coming up with, but the bottom line is that this is 2012, standards and expectations have be elevated .. lets face it, FSX is nothing but a basic platform where tons of "Add on's" piled, and created a Behemoth with tons of problems, turning those who came to fly into pseudo Hardware Software Engineers, seeking the help of Geeks tweakers and the hell know what ..just to get airborne ..... I hate those .XML .DLL .CFG IP AA, LOD, and the rest of the c...py weird things.. I just want to get to my Cockpit and focus on flying ...... We all deserve better !!!!! Yair

.... don't thing MS pay more attention to FS9 or even FSX, than Toyota to their 93 Camry, let's face it those products are obsolete , their shelves life is over, passe' ( I know, I know, we are emotionally, and financially attached ....), have know idea what Flight is coming up with, but the bottom line is that this is 2012, standards and expectations have be elevated .. lets face it, FSX is nothing but a basic platform where tons of "Add on's" piled, and created a Behemoth with tons of problems, turning those who came to fly into pseudo Hardware Software Engineers, seeking the help of Geeks tweakers and the hell know what ..just to get airborne ..... I hate those .XML .DLL .CFG IP AA, LOD, and the rest of the c...py weird things.. I just want to get to my Cockpit and focus on flying ...... We all deserve better !!!!! Yair

Hi Yair,I can sure relate to what you say but the problem is that very few things come perfect out of the box, whether that be a new car or truck or software. Everything needs to be prepped and maintained, so to speak. In software the only time anything is static is when it is not used or when the computer is turned off. Every hour it runs a computer changes things on the hard drives bit by bit, and before you know it, it is either time to tune, tweak, reinstall or replace. FSX was broken right in the box and it has taken some of the best brains in the business to get it to work not too badly and look fairly good with addons, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of hours. The more complex and ambitious a program is, like FSX, the more it needs love and attention, both of which costs time, trouble and money. In any case, it is not so bad having a few geeks around. :( They can come in handy, and the price is usually right.Kind regards,

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by SpiritFlyer

I may jump in but the concept of having to join Windows Live to play their game makes me want to vomit and gives me great pause....

Jim, you don't have to be logged into Windows Live to play at all! You only need login from time to time to see if there's anything interesting in the online Store......or want to join up with (up to) nineteen other game pilots to chase each other around Oahu island! :(

This is a repeat post from the Flight forum . . .I'm thinking it would be so cool to see a new Mac OS X based flight simulator. I get the sense their basic architecture is more stable and less crash prone. I understand they don't have nearly the reliance on inclusion of so many dll's and other essentials that tie in applications to the OS/hardware. Because of this there is more reliance on the developer to publish the app essentially w/ all it needs. No registry! There are major architectural differences between the platforms, but I don't think this in any way precludes building a super stable core application that 3rd party devs could write for that would give end users broad customization controls, as we see in FSX. Aim for photorealism to the highest degree combined w/ 3D objects taken from huge libraries based on different regions of the world. Design the application to include a full array of SDKs:

• Landclass
• Terrain Mesh
• 3D object Libraries--regionally matched to Landclass characteristics geographically.
• ATC
• Aircraft
• Land & Water Traffic
• Weather & Graphics

The core platform would be designed from the start to:

• Use system hardware, multithreading/multicore to the max. Optimize code to run on a new highest end Mac Pro Simulator: 12 core support, etc etc.
• Utilize professional-grade highest end graphics
• Adhere to strict quality standards and code conformity
• Be super friendly for multi-display support

This product would be sold as a package w/ an intended service life of maybe 5-10y. If you know where you are going it's easier to get there! I'd find a way to cough up $6-10K to buy this platform, AND THEN cough up dough for the various scenery packages (ala Orbx, but at a much higher standard), aircraft, etc. as they come along. This concept teases out 3rd party devs because they know they will be able to count on a durable platform to write for. I think XPlane tries to do this, but they don't have the resources to make the complete software/hardware integration with excellent user-directed customization on a stable platform. There are a raft of FS enthusiasts on the planet. Apple has always appealed I think to elitist tendencies so the market would be smaller, but if done really really well, could be quite big I would think. Raise the bar!Noel

If they stopped the activation process I think all hell would break loose. They would have to give you back your money or provide another way to insure the product can be installed and run.Bob

No doubt, lawsuits and all kinds of pandamonium would occur, I don't think MS would be stupid enough to attempt this. I'm sure they feel Flight! is an entirely different kind of product (It is a game afterall, not a simulator), so they wouldn't see the legacy FSX/FS9 as a threat to cannibalize Flight sales. Is there a precedent for this? Has MS, or any developer, ever shut off the activation process for "obsolete" software before? I'm thinking no, and it won't start now.

.... don't thing MS pay more attention to FS9 or even FSX, than Toyota to their 93 Camry, let's face it those products are obsolete , their shelves life is over, passe' ( I know, I know, we are emotionally, and financially attached ....), have know idea what Flight is coming up with, but the bottom line is that this is 2012, standards and expectations have be elevated .. lets face it, FSX is nothing but a basic platform where tons of "Add on's" piled, and created a Behemoth with tons of problems, turning those who came to fly into pseudo Hardware Software Engineers, seeking the help of Geeks tweakers and the hell know what ..just to get airborne ..... I hate those .XML .DLL .CFG IP AA, LOD, and the rest of the c...py weird things.. I just want to get to my Cockpit and focus on flying ...... We all deserve better !!!!! Yair

There is a silver lining to all this hackery and tweaking nonsense we FSX'ers have had to learn, and that is I have learned so much more about file structures, pc hardware/software troubleshooting, skills that are good things to have for life/work experience. As compared to my other games, which are pretty much just "plug and play", it's good to be involved behind the scenes of the software just to keep the old pencil sharp, if you know what I mean.

There is a silver lining to all this hackery and tweaking nonsense we FSX'ers have had to learn, and that is I have learned so much more about file structures, pc hardware/software troubleshooting, skills that are good things to have for life/work experience. As compared to my other games, which are pretty much just "plug and play", it's good to be involved behind the scenes of the software just to keep the old pencil sharp, if you know what I mean.

Yes sir, I know exactly what you mean. It is really easy to stagnate and grow slow and dull as we grow old and grey. Never fear, MSFS versions, especially FSX, have never let us just plug and play and enjoy the default experience for very long. FSX is like a tightly strung, high maintenance mistress, not that I would know about such things.Kind regards,

My thoughts,If MS is truely looking for a brand new market, they may not want to kill off FSX, at least immediately. They are looking at a much bigger market than the niche area we swim in. I suspect, many of us will at least try, or possibly buy Flight, and a few add-ons just to form a realistic opinion about it.If many of us go out and buy up a 2nd copy of FSX, that will boost FSX sales temporarily. But at some point, the cost of making small quantities of DVD's and their associated distribution costs will eventually kill it.My biggest fear is, is that they will shut down the server that activates FSX, or Windows 8 won't work with it!Knowing this community, MS would not want to endure the bad press and hate that would be hoisted upon them.On top of that, I have GoFlight HW and a Cougar Joystick/Throttle...and drivers are always an issue with a new OS.Only time will tell....enjoy it while you can......of course, there are always the combat sims like Falcon 4.0 BMS, DTS A-10, or Cliffs of Dover. I'll be flying something......Bill Clark

Jim, you don't have to be logged into Windows Live to play at all! You only need login from time to time to see if there's anything interesting in the online Store......or want to join up with (up to) nineteen other game pilots to chase each other around Oahu island! :(

Thanks Bill for taking the time to pass me this info about Windows Live. I guess times have changed. I had it back in the late 1990's. There are so many of these on-line services that collect personal info, e-mail addresses, etc., and use it for their benefit by passing it to advertisers. Microsoft is also trying to beef up Spaces and other on-line services. I read somewhere that you do have to sign up and even if I have to I'll give them as little personal info as possible (should I want to play with others on-line).Best regards,Jim

This is interesting. But what if MS has a plan for serious flight simulation enthusiasts? Like Flight! Pro or something. What if they are helping Lockheed get Prepar3D into shape behind the scenes. What if then, MS sold a consumer version of P3D? MS has done some dumb things, but we are always so ready to crucify them. They have more and better legacy support for product than anyone else. I'm sure there are business reasons for that. But let me ask any Apple guys out there. Are they supporting any software that was discontinued several years ago, other than their OS? Do they even support that? Is HP? Is Google? MS is still supporting XP. FSX became something for which it was never intended and cracked under the weight of it all. It would have cost MS a small fortune to tear it apart and rebuild it...for a small market. P3D is what 500.00 or 10/month. I realize it is target marketed, but something as complex as FSX was almost a give away, considering its complexity. Why don't we wait and see what MS does. If they stick it up ours, I'll be right in line with you guys for X-Plane or P3D. I might even buy an Apple product (just kidding...MS would have to steal my children for me to buy Apple :) Perhaps we should thank MS for creating the product in the first place and sticking with it as long as they did. I say all of this with the greatest respect for my forum mates...most of whom know more about this pastime than I ever will. Just my 2 cents worth. Probably 1 cent worth.

I can't see any reason, why MS would suddenly kill their FSX activation servers. First, FSX is still being sold and that way by no means it is legacy software that has been phased out. Secondly, like I wrote about this in one A2A forums thread a while ago, MS probably has bunch of servers handling online activations for all their software utilizing similar DRM systems. FSX, or any other software they have, probably don't have dedicated server(s) for this kind of purpose (at least I wouldn't do it with dedicated machines). FSX online activation scheme runs in these activation servers with many others and as long as MS decides to use online activation, we have not that big reason to worry. FSX activation is merely one service among bunch of other similar schemes.In fact it is IMO more likely, that FSX activation continues to work for many years from now, than it is with most other games. Situation may change very suddenly with smaller game companies, who run online activation or multiplayer servers: they can go bankrupt even after one unsuccesful game or they may very easily pull the plug from online servers and kill their games if it seems that certain game won't be popular enough and at the same time they coldly leave those who believed in them with a game that is completely unplayable. There are numerous examples of this kind of situations in the industry. I find these two options very unlikely in case of Microsoft, but of course everything is always possible.

Edited January 15, 201214 yr by TheGrunt

If this ever happens, and I'm sure it won't, then surely someone will come up with a way to bypass all that stuff. I know it's not "legal" but then surely taking away activation servers is not legal either. It's software that I've paid for, if anyone has a problem with it they can come over and inspect my FSX box. So here's another problem with online activation, what happens 10+ years down the line? If I can't activate software I paid for, then that must be illegal. Even 100 years down the line, if I want to activate FSX, I should damn well be able to! They chose to use online activation, their problem, not ours. This software belongs to ME. Not them, and I have the right to use it until 2060 if I want to.

I bet, and it's only a hunch, that MS will drop FSX as soon as they can. They may well have backroom support, but retaling FSX is no longer in their interests as it will impact sales of Flight, which has far more commercial and financial longevity with ongoing and growing income return.