Yea I am getting a little sick of the pseudo lawyers trolling around here. EULA this and EULA that... All that matters is the EULA between LM and yourself, if you don't feel comfortable with that EULA don't purchase it, simple as that... Stop trying to play lawyer simulator 2012 and analyzing if LM is in some kind of legal fiasco.

And I'm getting sick of people who can't understand a simple concept.The P3D EULA does not allow its use for personal/entertainment purposes. Therefore,it is foolish to expect P3D add-ons to be developed commercially in the same way as for FSX unless the EULA changes. A commercial developer faced with a cease-and-desist letter from LM would either have to obey or face LM in court. Given their relative resources its response would be obvious.

So that rules out P3D for us. Fine, topic closed.

And I'm getting sick of people who can't understand a simple concept.The P3D EULA does not allow its use for personal/entertainment purposes. Therefore,it is foolish to expect P3D add-ons to be developed commercially in the same way as for FSX unless the EULA changes. A commercial developer faced with a cease-and-desist letter from LM would either have to obey or face LM in court. Given their relative resources its response would be obvious.

Riddle me this......So how are Orbx allowing Side by side licences of its scenery products for 'entertainment use' with the blessing of LM?Orbx are also charging WAY more for the same scenery product in P3D if you are using it for commercial purposes, so there is clearly an Orbx licence for home users and an Orbx licence for commerical use, all within P3D.How are FSDT releasing P3D installers? How are REX allowing P3D install or Aerosoft for that matter?3rd party addon devs are quickly looking at P3D as the next step forward. I for one, am pleased that we have LM and John Nicol active on the forums and pleased that they are offering encouragement and support to both users AND developers.If you dont want to use it because you feel it breaks your stance on the EULA (despite LM already saying its fine) then by all means go with something else.Let the rest of us go and use P3D (with addons) and we will see you on the other side....or not!I will let LM and the 3rd party guys worry about EULA's and all that nonsense. If LM and 3rd party devs allow me to purchase, that is all I care about!"Home Lawyer 2012" indeed..........its just silly.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Glenn Harrall

We don't know what ms and lm have agreed to. Speculation is just that and ir doesnt sound like many of us are actually commercial lawyers(!).As said above, lm have made it clear under what auspices we can use the software, and many of us feel that we fit in to the categories (training, ppl student, beginning developer, whatever). J nichol went further and told us he was keen to have us on board.Agreed the future is uncertain, but the only committment you need make now is $10 per month. Throw in another $6.95 to crosslicence your orbx pnw, and you should have a good simulator. The future licencing, pricing, 3rd party support etc should become clearer during 2012.One more thing -this is an easy sim for developers to jump on board. FSX has most of the current market share, and most of these products seem to work with minimal or even no modification. X-plane, flight (probably) and any new sim like aerofly would require extensive modification to the existing products.

FSX will remain the platform of choice for the next 5 years or so because of it's existing popularity, acceptable performance on most hardware and that add-ons are becoming increasingly sophisticated thanks to hardware development.For the hard-core simmers (with a bit of spare dosh) that want to take advantage of new code development then P3D will become their choice. I don't think this group will be large enough to draw any ire from Microsoft's lawyers.Developers will be able to code their products jointly for FSX/P3D because they are essentially the same platform.XPX development will slowly attract some FSX/P3D users/developers but will always be alternative platformFlight will be for people who want to be entertained without reading a manual or becoming a computer expert which is quite sensible from a business point of view. MS could make additional money by allowing 3rd party development on an 'Expert' edition, maybe they'll change their mind one day.

MS could make additional money by allowing 3rd party development on an 'Expert' edition, maybe they'll change their mind one day.

Nope because MS prefer to close for ever rather then make a wise move towards the sim community. No matter if it would bring lot of money, MS is proud of It's home made policy and we have been seeing it in action since too many years.FSX have been a faulty experiment Redmond managers say but nowtime it is too late to retrieve FSX from the market.If we have to deal with them we have to tune ourselves on MS frequency first.-

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Mark II

I'm a bit late to the party, but the lack of SDK is surprising to me... I wonder who makes those decisions...Anyway, it's a bit of a shameless plug, but I'm part of a small team that works on a new flight simulator called Infinite Flight. It's not made with a crazy budget, and we're starting small in the mobile space. Our ultimate goal is to grow to the point where we can rival with the big players on PC and Mac. We definitely will have an SDK at some point.We have a Windows Phone 7 version that has been out for a few months and our iOS version is coming in a few weeks.Here's a preview we released last month:http://www.youtube.c...d&v=ArFc3v2NE9cEverything is not lost :)

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by mlaban

I'm a bit late to the party, but the lack of SDK is surprising to me... I wonder who makes those decisions...Anyway, it's a bit of a shameless plug, but I'm part of a small team that works on a new flight simulator called Infinite Flight. It's not made with a crazy budget, and we're starting small in the mobile space. Our ultimate goal is to grow to the point where we can rival with the big players on PC and Mac. We definitely will have an SDK at some point.We have a Windows Phone 7 version that has been out for a few months and our iOS version is coming in a few weeks.Here's a preview we released last month:http://www.youtube.c...d&v=ArFc3v2NE9cEverything is not lost :)

Phones are for voice conversations... not flight simulation. When I see something for the PC... then I'll take a look. Sorry.

I'm a bit late to the party, but the lack of SDK is surprising to me... I wonder who makes those decisions...Anyway, it's a bit of a shameless plug, but I'm part of a small team that works on a new flight simulator called Infinite Flight. It's not made with a crazy budget, and we're starting small in the mobile space. Our ultimate goal is to grow to the point where we can rival with the big players on PC and Mac. We definitely will have an SDK at some point.We have a Windows Phone 7 version that has been out for a few months and our iOS version is coming in a few weeks.Here's a preview we released last month:http://www.youtube.c...d&v=ArFc3v2NE9cEverything is not lost :)

If you decide to make a version for PC and if you listen to this community members before and while developing ,well, you are going to be the most rich man of the known galaxy.Now it's up to you.cheers

Phones are for voice conversations... not flight simulation. When I see something for the PC... then I'll take a look. Sorry.

Someone should tell this to Apple, Google and Microsoft.Clearly they're missing something :(

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by HowardHughes

Phones are for voice conversations... not flight simulation. When I see something for the PC... then I'll take a look. Sorry.

Phones are a great way to start and crowd fund a flight sim (easy access, distribution, less competition, etc...)Also, since phones are limited as far as CPU, GPU and Memory go, there is no way for us to start with a bloated and slow sim. This can only make it better for when we go to the PC.Infinite Flight actually runs PC, we do most of our development on Windows 7 and I can tell you that it runs really smooth. We just haven't released it yet because it's much harder to reach an audience on PC.

Phones are a great way to start and crowd fund a flight sim (easy access, distribution, less competition, etc...)Also, since phones are limited as far as CPU, GPU and Memory go, there is no way for us to start with a bloated and slow sim. This can only make it better for when we go to the PC.Infinite Flight actually runs PC, we do most of our development on Windows 7 and I can tell you that it runs really smooth. We just haven't released it yet because it's much harder to reach an audience on PC.

Any chance of a small you tube demo ?I repeat myself, if you develop a simulation listening to this community you are going to be the richest man in the world. This does not mean it is easy of course.

Any chance of a small you tube demo ?I repeat myself, if you develop a simulation listening to this community you are going to be the richest man in the world. This does not mean it is easy of course.

Well, at this point, it's pretty much the same as the iPad video I linked in my original post, only you can play with a joystick at a higher resolution :)As far a listening to the community, we already have a feedback site set up for users to leave feedback and we try to develop features based on what is there. (flyingdevstudio.uservoice.com)

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by mlaban

Folks, just a reminder from the P3D forumGents,From now we won't allow any more comment on the legal aspect of Prepar3D.Discussing here about the deal between Microsoft and Lockheed Martin without any basis is useless and sterile.Avsim is not a lawyer school and all those groundless speculations and comments are inappropriate and out of place here. Thanks to John Nicol, we have a fantastic opportunity to interfacing with LM developers, we shouldn't waste it because of legal stuff that isn't in our hands.Thanks for understanding.

Hi ORBX. What about releasing your own orbx's FSX SP3 with engine imrovements for simmer community, which totaly unimpessed by new flight for something like -100 dollars?

Flight isnt 100 dollars. Its 0 dollars