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garsands

Is the addon niche market about to boom?

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Oh how your going to laugh at me with this one.Sorry it's a long post & goes on abit. full of spelling errors ect.SoIs the addon niche market about to boom?I ask this qustion because I have just started & enjoying FSX 10 months ago so I am a new FSX Simmer.So I started to think why did I start to play FSX why now it's been out for 6 years I have know about it for 6 years.I am 39 years old & when reading posts from FSX forums I seening things like 'my grandchildren, retirement, at my age, I am 60+ ect, dont like silly shoot um up games like BF3 ect.Then I look at your profile pictures & avatars not just on this forum but other FSX fan forums, well alot of you hardcore FSX simmers the ones that buy 3PD software are over 40.So I ask myself Why is this?Why is it the older players that like the hardcore side of FSX?Why at the age of 39 have I at last thought about buying FSX? I have know about it for 6 years.I bought MS Flight Simulator for Windows 95 back in 1996 played it for a few days even bought the MS book & that was it, so why now at the age of 39 do I now enjoy playing FSX?I am enjoying it so much that I am now taking the time to post on this Flight sim forum & have spent £150 on 3PD software I was about to spend £300 on hardware yoke, rudder ect to use with FSX.So what's changed why has something just clicked that made me now enjoy FSX?Two friends of mine both aged 45 started to use FSX about 5 years ago & use 3PD software they would have both been 40 when they frist started to us FSX & both are still using it.So that's three of us that both started to play FSX at the age of around 40.So is this why....I would put myself into a large & lucky group of FIRST generation computer gamers this is way.Here is a history of my computer gaming life.1982 - I had a ZX Spectrum Home Computer to play games on. I was age 10The Spectrum was among the FIRST mainstream home computers in the UK bring the FIRST GAMES to the mainstream audience.1990 - I had a nintendo nes games console. I was age 181991 - I had a Amiga 500 Home Computer to play games on. I was age 191994 - I had my first PC to play games on. I was age 22 (100Mz) DX4 something something I think 4mb of RAM)My First PC game was Doom released a year before. Doom was one of the first main FPS.So I was luckly to be a child age of 10 when the first Home Computer to play games in colour came out.The First home gaming console were released....The nintendo nes was released in 1985 They sold 61.91 million (I was 13 good age for gaming)The Sega Mega Drive was released in 1989 They sold around 40.9 million (I was 17 good age for gaming with your mates around)So When I was a teenager the first GAME consoles & Amiga Home computers came on the scene.And in turn the FIRST generation of computer/console game players are born, & here we are now at the age of 35-45 all grown up & we want something new to fill in the space of silly computer games.I have come here from a gaming forum because I have been a gamer for the last 30 years & I like computers & I like computer games, but I am bored of playing silly games I have been for the last 5 years.On a gaming forum I read posts from people around my age starting threads saying they are fed up with playing games & don't know what to do to replace this gap that games would leave, but they don't want to stop using computers.Now why are we bored of silly games the same type of games we have always been playing?Because We have seen it all before theres nothing new for us 30 years on.Games now just seem that same as the last BF1,BF2,BF3, GTA1,GTA2,GTA3,GTA4,GTA5, ME1,ME2 the list goes on.Warcraft is in its what 5th upgrade.99% of games now are just new improved copys of a 16 year old game. But with a new skin on the top.They are even releasing remakes of 10+ year old games.One game that has tried to break the mould is L.A. Noire. so hats off to them.As you get older you no longer want to play games like the younger generation are playing now, the ones you used to play you now find then silly & borning.Just like you would not get a toy car out and start playing with it on the floor we grow up we no longer enjoy the things we use to as we get older.But we the FIRST generation do like to see things move forward we like things that use the most of new tech it's what's been keeping us going for the last 30 years we don't like things that stand still we like to move forward we are use to that.One of the things that keeps some away from FSX is it does not run well I have held off spending £300 last year on FSX 3PD.MS Flight as we know will be free to download good move people can try it & see it no longer runs at a low FPS there's a no risk test.Make what you want off what I have said.BUT one ture FACT that I do know & that's at 39 & two friends at 40 both got drawn to FSX & buying 3PD software at around the same age.I am sure MS already know this.Is there a huge market out there ready to join you guys in your hobby & they are not childern they are from the FIRST generation computer gamers aged 40+ & we have the money burning a hole in our pockets ready to spend on addons.Steam (a online site that sales games) have just had a winter sale & the amount of gamers that spend £100 on games & never play then. I have just done the same. £85 spent on 21 one games I will never play half of them I will never finsh 99% of them. But it's a game I need to spend money on games.We seem to buy games like woman buy shoes we buy lots but only use them for a day then never again. We can spend that money on addons we already have the money.Is the past a niche market of addons & now the 1st FIRST generation of computer gamers are just catching up with you. I keep on hearing MS Flight has been built for kids as that's there main market & kids don't want to buy addons & they will get bored of it, well good but you your forgetting us the BIG KIDS the 40 year olds that have been gaming for the last 30 years & now want a new more mature form of gaming entertainment.We are looking to join a mature community we want to join the skys with mature people & not play shoot up's with foul language kids we are fed up with that but that's all we have at the moment.It's nice here on this forum you are all polite & so very loyal.MS know what they are doing they are forward thnking.The FSX market must be growing why else would obix be plaining to make double the amount of Airports this year & start making scenery of the UK?John V has already said 'MS sold so many copies of FSX on the back of third party development that they actually ran out of registration keys and had to remaster new CDs for retail outlet'Computer gaming is part of the entertianment market we 40 year olds need our computer entertiantment we have had it for the last 30 years, but we dont want silly games anymore we are looking for something new something mature.There are 100's 1000's of games we have enjoyed left in the past that have been made for as for the last 30 years, as we follow the gaming path but now at the age of 40 we have hit a brick wall now where do we go?Is MS flight our new path what else is there for us?When you get older you enjoy the finer things with FSX I enjoy the learning experience I find it very rewarding. Doing everythng the way it's ment to be done no cheating. But I don't need to tell you that you have been doing it for years (so full respect to you all)Now I am not saying a million 40+ year olds are about to join MS Flight but I am saying there is a new market share waiting to be tapped. Sure MS know this.Why do older people play FSX & why they enjoy it so much, why don't they play the games that kids play?Theres a lot of more gamers reaching 40 every year from now on. So every year the mature gaming community will grow.MS understand this?Now that was one crazy post. Just a crazy thought.But what I do know is I am bored on playing the same game's for the last 16 year's I am ready for something new.Any spelling errors ect sorry you have to live with them.Something missing from my little brain on that side of things.Took me a painful 2 hours just to write the above.

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Thanks for a very thoughtful post with a fresh point of view.John

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I think you maybe on to something...I also am 39, I've been simming for a long time, but I feel that the add-ons have never been better than right now....And you're right...you get to a certain age and you don't want to play the same old first person shooters... I look at this as learning a _skill_, something that can be mastered with time...a challenge if you will. It makes me want to invest the money to get my private pilots license and fly for real.If anything, Flight will be downloaded by many because it's free....but many will get bored with the limitations and when they start to research flight sim in general, they are going to stumble upon their first youtube video of a Captain Sim or PMDG bird running on an I7 2600k with REX,UTX,GEX etc... and they will be blown away...and if they have any love for aviation, FSX is where they will land...It won't take a brain surgeon to see that FSX is an open platform with thousands of add-ons, most freeware, and payware that makes the sim 'as real as it gets' compared to the locked limited Flight that will never reach the amount and diversity of add-ons. That is not even mentioning that Flight won't model the entire world.So yes, I don't see FSX sales or 3pd sales for FSX diminishing from this, I see them increasing... good post


Cheers,

Jonathan

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FSX has years of life left in it, at least 5 to 10 years. My worry is that MS will simply stop selling FSX copies after FLIGHT hits the market.
Well... Everyone ought to buy a spare copy soon. I have considered this as prices are now down to 25 bucks for the Gold edition and I can't afford not to be able to get it actviated on a new computer in the future.FSX with 5-10 years is very likely to occur within this community. I am really starting to understand this. I applied the BP=0 tweak and FSX is *really* starting to stretch it's legs and show it's full capability on powerful computers. I have never seen such smooth frames in the NGX even on maxed settings. This is really what FSX was intended for back in 2006, computers just weren't strong enough at the time to handle the intensity of the FSX core engine. Within the next 2-3 years, Intel's new chips combined with high powered Nvida GPU's[Kepler and Beyond], FSX will be a breeze. I am confident that the generation after Ivy Bridge will be the FSX dream processor line.Just my 2 cents... :)

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Well... Everyone ought to buy a spare copy soon. I have considered this as prices are now down to 25 bucks for the Gold edition and I can't afford not to be able to get it actviated on a new computer in the future.
Why the necessity of purchasing an extra copy? I can take my three DVDs (FSX and FSXA) and create ISO files from them and burn new backup DVDs for about $1.00.The thing of value to those three backup DVDs are the two 5x5 product codes. Lose those and no DVD is any good for more than 30 minutes worth of flying.

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The real threat is after FLIGHT comes out and MS stops producing, selling and supporting FSX, that will be a dampening effect to the continuation of FSX as a viable platform. You, as an individual may very well have lots of copies, but what about the new generation just coming on to flight simming? They will not have choice to purchase FSX and FLIGHT will be the only option. And hence they will be trapped inside Microsoft FLIGHT apps store and separated from the true sim community.
Very true. That is quite a frightening thought. I like FLIGHT so far, but I don't think it is anywhere near a replacement for *highly* advanced simmers.Honestly, P3D seems interesting but I doubt it will ever end up as our choice. XP10 is cool but I don't really think it will work either.

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I'm im the same boat as the OP, a '1st generation' gamer who cut his teeth on the Vic-20. I coded my first flightsim in 1983.If you started with the 1st computers then part of the attraction was wondering what next year's technology would let you do.Each new combat flight sim was big news. i remember microprose f-19 being reviewed in the newspaper and the comment that the Pentagon would be worried about the amount of information on this 'new plane' that adversaries would now know. Lol! Pretty funny when you look back and see just how basic the systems modelling was. I also remember telling my brother that the terrain was photoreal...'look at that river!'.Move forward to 2012 and we now have sims that actually do replicate life pretty well. The NGX and a terabyte of photoscenery do what many of us had always wanted a flightsim to do - convincingly mimic the real world.The irony is that flight simulation is alleged to be getting less popular, at a time when the hardware and software allow us to finally do what we wanted to do back in 1982.I was looking at old combat sims the other day and it struck me that maybe modern sims are too complex. The reality is the realistic sims of 20 years ago were very muvh simplified, so many of us have had a generation to learn systems etc. It may be that the barriers to entry for a new generation are too high for most.


Robert J Whitehead

Home: YPPD, in Australia's great northwest.

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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Yep, and it's great! I was just thinking the other day, even 2 years ago it was still possible to have ALL the really good addons. Not anymore. You'd have to sell your wife just to buy everything in the ORBX shop. There is so much choice but most of all, so much quality out there. Long may it continue.

I was looking at old combat sims the other day and it struck me that maybe modern sims are too complex. The reality is the realistic sims of 20 years ago were very muvh simplified, so many of us have had a generation to learn systems etc. It may be that the barriers to entry for a new generation are too high for most.
Interesting point, but I'm not entirely sure. The last "flight sim" I played for many years was indeed F117A, sequel to your beloved F19 :) I went for years without, totally unaware of the wonderful world of simming.Then I discovered Falcon 4.I'd always liked games that make you think but this was a new level, and I only discovered it when I was 26. I was immediately swimming in the 800 page systems manual. Eventually I discovered FS9 which made Falcon 4.0 seem boring. A whole new world to explore, and instrument flight in a complex airliner was far more thrilling than shooting down MiGs.I think if you like this sort of thing, you like it. I didn't know an elevator from an aeleron when I was 26. Now I have a commercial pilots license (the most expensive addon in the world).But there's something else that may still validate your point. When I was a kid, I spent probably 10 hours a day playing with Lego. I have no doubt that this prepares one's mind for something like flight simming far more than say, watching X-Factor or texting friends or downloading iPhone apps or dating at age 12.I just hope some kids are still playing with Lego.And I think I sound like my dad.

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Atari Computer, 12" screen. Approx 1982. Tired of shooting games. Rather land a Bell 206 on a Fire Tower on the side of a mountain. In the summer on a hot night, do it with a cold beer. Got Ninga Fishing for my Ipod for kicks. I cannot do games anymore = boring. Flying = excitement. Hands & feet muscle memory along with learning about flying with realism, virtual piloting reality. Maybe a different part of the brain kicks in after 35-40. After 32 years old my attitude about life did a 180. After 55 another 90. I believe the brain matures and needs more challenge verses raw reflex type action. I may be wrong, nonetheless action games bore me. Except... a fun driving game (not racing) like Test Drive Unlimited. It does require good reflexes at high speeds, but a great chill out sight seeing game also. I find racing a bit intense, have enough intensity with my job. Flying and having the intensity of piloting an aircraft, fun!

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I think it has more to do with interests than age, I'm in my 20's and love simming and I know a lot of guys in their late 40s who are full into action FPS.

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I just hope some kids are still playing with Lego.
mine are but they are just 4 and 5 yrs old. well, old enough for FLIGHT I guess :-)

Phil Leaven

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My worry is that MS will simply stop selling FSX copies after FLIGHT hits the market.
FSX will be dropped by MS as soon as they possibly can! Why would they want to sell a one off sim for $25, to a new audience or whatever price it is, when they can sell them a game which has monetary longevity. Hook 'em in and receive regular income. That's the name of the game (sorry for the pun.)

Howard
P3Dv4, Asus Z170-A MB, i7-6700 Skylake @ 4.5ghz, Asus GTX1080ti 11Gb GPU, 16gb RAM@3200Mhz, SSD/1Tb+P3D.v4.4, SSD/500Gb+OS, Western Digital 1Tb HD + Storage, Ocz 750 PSU, Philips BDM4350UC 43" 4K IPS, 2 x 17" Dell @ 1920x1200. PFC Yoke, Warthog throttle system, Saitek combat pedals, Saitek switch and radio panels, VRinsight Boeing 2 MCP.



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MS should have made flight into a Combat FS. Huge market for that especially when one figures in consoles.The blowing stuff up market is much bigger and lends itself much better to multiplayer action.Imaging exciting add on titles such as:F86 vs Mig 15 - Conflict over Korea!The Lemay Treament- B29's over Japan!Flying Fortress!Flying Tigers!Spitfire!B-26 Marauders!Jugs! P-47's over Germany -known for its provocative nose art...Midway!D-Day!The Mighty 8th!Linebacker II- B52's over Vietnam!One a Day in Tampa Bay! Naval Aviator TrainingThe last days of the Luftwaffe! ME 262's taking on massed bomber formations.Dam Busters!etc etc..

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I bought a copy of FSX (Gold) £16 from EBAY. It is still wrapped up and I may not use it. But it is there just in case.


Tristan

 

Living in the beautiful Chilterns.

 

FS System: intel e8600 core 2 duo cpu, asus p5q deluxe motherboard, 4gb ddr2 1066 corsair memory thermaltake 750w power supply, palit 9800gtx+ 512mb graphics card, 750gb sata2 hard drive, 500gb sata2 hard drive, coolermaster v8 cpu cooler, antec 900 case, xp pro 32 bit, creative xfi titanium sound card, 22x dvd/rw. Still sticking and rocking with FS9.

 

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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