Noise Abatement during Manually Flying

[Michael Moe 493]

Hi,What would you do during a takeoff and climb not using the Autopilot at all for a NADP1?With the newest 10.8? FMC as in NGX.Lets take EHAM (Amsterdam)for instance .Is it hitting N1 about 1500 feet (frome takeoff to reduction mode?) and continue with V2+20 up to 3000 and then hitting VNAV continuing from here flaps retraction and speed build up to 250 ?ThanksMichael

Edited January 14, 2012 by Michael Moe

[Fabo 213]

-pre-set climb in TAKOFF INIT page 2 as per NADP1.-pre-select VNAV and LNAV at take-off and use flight directoror just fly it by hand and raw data if possible due to SID design.In NG you dont need to hit the N1 button.

[Michael Moe 493]

-pre-set climb in TAKOFF INIT page 2 as per NADP1.-pre-select VNAV and LNAV at take-off and use flight directoror just fly it by hand and raw data if possible due to SID design.In NG you dont need to hit the N1 button.

Thanks,So what would happen in the NG if i did not choose to hit VNAV preflight but set preflight at 1500 for reduction in the FMC? Would it change enginepower to reduction at 1500 regardless of autopilot engaged or continue with the TAKEOFF mode?Is the reduction visually on the PFD or elsewhere (enginepower reduction would be seen in the engine section right ?)ThanksMichael

[Fabo 213]

Automatic thrust reduction after take-off is a function of FMC and A/T, not connected to VNAV though.Although it is only an option, the PMDG has it. I am not totally sure but I believe it is standart after U10.1 FMC SW update (PMDG has 10.8A), but I can imagine some airlines opting out for commoniality with classics, or similar reasons. You can find somewhere in forum history a Kulula pilot explaining, that even though their NGs do have automatic reduction, they still use the N1 button for commoniality with their 400s. Maybe Matt (Spin737) can comment how it goes at his airline, as he also flies both Classics and NGs.Reduction can be seen on Upper DU obviously by the limit and engine N1 reading, and the indication on the FMA on the PFD also changes from ARM to N1 (or if 800 is set as reduction altitude, from THR HLD to N1). If the difference between TO power and CLB power is great enough, you can also hear it.

[Michael Moe 493]

Thanks .Now EHAM is a place that likes noise abatement so why does they not mention reduction altitude .They only mention climb power at1500 feet and speed and flaps as a NADP1. Is reduction not part of NAP ?Thanks michael

[Fabo 213]

Climb power at 1500ft means that 1500ft is reduction altitude. That is NADP1 standart.

[victorlima01 2]

climb power = thrust reduction. The amount of reduciton depends on many factors associated with the takeoff and fist segment

[Michael Moe 493]

Okay Thanks .Must be the confusion for me regarding NADP1+2 when you normally have the modes .takeoff-reduction-acceleration to 250 and above 10000 climb.They just show climb trust for all modes over 800ft.MICHAEL

Edited January 15, 2012 by Michael Moe

[vololiberista 205]

climb power = thrust reduction. The amount of reduciton depends on many factors associated with the takeoff and fist segment

"Climb power" is applied only after passing the listening post. Using another a/c as an example. Initial climb to 2,000ft at 180kts full power. second segment reduce power maintain 180kts. Third segment apply climb power after passing listening posts typically on this a/c 93%n2. At the point specified in th NA procedure accelerate and clean up. On completion of flap retraction continue acceleration to 250kts.vololiberista

[Fabo 213]

Wait, what?Reducing power to any such rating that you will have to add more power later in the procedure is not a part of any standart procedure I know of, certainly not NADP1,2 or ICAO proc A or B. Furthermore no noise abaitment procedure is defined by lateral position (listening point) but always by vertical position (altide AAL).Michael, in NADP, the altitude is defined as 800ft or above. Most, if not all the airports discussed (including EHAM, ref Jeppessen briefing page 10-1P14, dated 23 APR 10, eff 6 May, section 3.3.1) use an NADP1 variant that is same as (former) ICAO PROC A and uses 1500ft for reduction altitude.

[vololiberista 205]

Reducing power to any such rating that you will have to add more power later in the procedure is not a part of any standart procedure I know of, .

What you are in effect saying here is that you would maintain take-off power throughout the entire noise abatement procedure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!vololiberista Edited January 16, 2012 by vololiberista

[Fabo 213]

No, in effect what I am saying that once you reduce to climb power you do not add power any more. That is the only change in power. TO to CLB.

[vololiberista 205]

No, in effect what I am saying that once you reduce to climb power you do not add power any more. That is the only change in power. TO to CLB.

In that case to stay within speed limits I would have to breach the local fpm regulations!!!!vololiberista

[Fabo 213]

FPM regulations? never ever heard of that. Where, what airport?

[Spin737 102]

You can find somewhere in forum history a Kulula pilot explaining, that even though their NGs do have automatic reduction, they still use the N1 button for commoniality with their 400s. Maybe Matt (Spin737) can comment how it goes at his airline, as he also flies both Classics and NGs.

At airline A with Classics & NGs, we have U10.7 and we use NADP-2 almost exclusively. At 1,000', it's "Bug UP, N1, Flaps 1."At airline B, we had U10.8A and we used VNAV for NADP-1 and -2. There were no "N1" calls.