JS41 - Come on PMDG we expect better!

[Paul_Smith 92]

What I was expecting was a product that didn't have known issues with the VC, that forced users to use a high resolution, and thus suffer a reduction in performance.Which is of course a requiremnt that we don't learn about untill after the product is purchased. ...

Now that is just trolling!You have almost 500 posts on Avsim over the last 6 years. Are you honestly trying to tell us that you think it is somehow PMDG's fault that in all that time you were too lazy to bother reading their forums before you bought their products?Your argument might have had some credence if you were talking about software that had been released in the last few hours or days, before people had time to find the more subtle aspects of the product, but you can't use that excuse when the software has been on sale and been openly talked about in this and other forums for almost two and a half years!

[BlueStar 323]

Mr. Wilby,I think the J-41 is one of PMDG's best models, including the NGX. The J-41 flies very well and the systems seem to be well represented (not rated in a J-41). I am running it on a 6 year old, 32-bit PC with a 3 year old GTS video card. All I've done is follow Ryan's advice on setting up my Nvidia card.PMDG has done an excellent job in presenting a small, regional turboprop. The J-41 gets my greatest complement - "it's fun to fly".Bill Bridges

Edited January 19, 2012 by Bluestar

[Turbine777 13]

I think people jump far to fast to demolish others in forum like this one. You have the 'Yes Team' always standing by to defend their beloved master and the slightest post stating any pertinent information gets quickly attacked but what the others see as an attack themselve.People always get me wrong. They can't tell if I'm against PMDG (or any developer) or part of this "Yes Team". Neither. If someone with 1 post brings up a valid point, then I back that point. I can care less how that makes me look to the yes team or the actual developer, and it shouldn't be what's being consider either,,, ever! If someone comes attacking something they don't understand, then I would be seen on the other side of that fence, but also in explaining. The other problem is people on most boards live by the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Be that way all you want, but you are 100% wrong in being that way. Everyone is human and often you need to take a post that cannot later be edited at what it could be, and that's a post brought on by frustration. People don't though, and they won't because it takes away their chance to be idiots and yell and scream at them making them look like some sort of hero, it's pathetic.@ Paul, I would say a good 8 0, % of your postsreplies to people that I read fit well into the above last part of what I said. Meaning, you often attack what people say but are (hopefully) just also speaking from the hip without much thought of what you're saying. If someone doesn't like a post or topic then why the hell MUST they say so all the time. If there's something beneficial to add, then sure, but like my mother use to say "If you nothing good to say, don't say anything at all". It's something I often have to remind myself of too.Such as jokingly, I was going to just reply to Bill asking for a link to this so called J-31 that I never knew PMDG had. I was only going to because I know if I didn't do so lightly, that some reject would soon be by to blast him for just getting it wrong. To say you don't see that point is either a flat out lie, or you all have your princaples totally screwed up.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Turbine777

[BlueStar 323]

Dan,Thanks for catching my typo. :smile:Bill Bridges

[martin-w 3,234]

I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX. :Doh:I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it. I understand what it's like to be irritated with a product, but your thread is mostly coming across (respectfully) as unrealistic and trollish. First it was the VC. Now it's the fact that the aircraft is too loud and your family doesn't appreciate it? Let's get a grip.You've been given the fix. You've been given a workaround for the sound. (lower the volume...) Let's move on. In the mean time, open a support ticket if you're miffed.

I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX.From what I have read, many have complained about the sound, so no, not just "not balanced for me", it's not balanced for many. Realism for the sake of it is often a negative.As for turning down the FSX sound, Zach, I'm 54, been doing this a while, of course I can turn down the sound from within FSX, it's precisely what I have done... but I don't have to do that with any product I own. Hence, you would think the developer would have balanced the sound better. It's not just loud, it's very loud.I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it. You didn't give me anything Zach, I found the fix myself, although still to test if it was effective. But the point, is should we have to sacrifice features the product was advertised to have, to fix the anomaly? Or should the developer patch the issue, and provide the product advertised?The point, is that nowhere on the PMDG site, does it tell anyone, "before purchase", that the advertised icing effects are not available for many/some customers if you want to avoid graphical anomalies. And no where on the PMDG web site does it tell customers, before purchase, that the product only works with high resolutions, or you get VC graphical issues.I'm a "troll" you say, well after many years as a moderator, and untold posts on forums, thats the first time I've been told that.So thanks for the feedback.I'm an individual who will gladly tell you what I think, a true reflection of my opinion. The PMDG 737 NGX is without doubt the greatest add-on ever released. And that's coming from someone that's been at this game since Clive Sinclair's machines. Probably before you were born Zach.However, I say the JS41 is an unfinished product and I am disappointed.That's my opinion, the opinion of someone double the age of some of my detractors in this thread, take it or leave it. Call me a "troll" if you like. But I reserve the right to have a different opinion to you guys,as much as you may hate that.I won't respond anymore in this thread, I wouldn't want a troll to polute your forum. Edited January 19, 2012 by martin-w

[WotanUK 289]

I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX.

The engine noise is very loud, far to loud; while you can turn the volume down within FSX, this then affects every other add-on, you can't really hear the engine noise from the NGX at acceptable levels for the J41. This is a fault and should be fixed.

I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it.

If you read the PMDG general forum it's made very clear that the texture fault is a fault with the FSX engine a hard limit that PMDG could not fix. You have a workaround, i am afraid that this is as good as it's going to get. Personally i think that this is acceptable.

The point, is that nowhere on the PMDG site, does it tell anyone, "before purchase", that the advertised icing effects are not available for many/some customers if you want to avoid graphical anomalies. And no where on the PMDG web site does it tell customers, before purchase, that the product only works with high resolutions, or you get VC graphical issues.

Would you advertise issues with FSX engine, where would that stop, you would also have to say that ATC doesn't support STAR's / SID's etc... I do completely understand your point, but feel that in this instance it's a little unfair to blame PMDG.

However, I say the JS41 is an unfinished product and I am disappointed.

Yes it could do with some extra work, the sounds are my particular bug bear.It's a shame that you feel you shouldn't post, i agree that some of the avsim forums are getting way to similar too 4chan, people manage to be both patronising and occasionally hostile.

[hcornea 4]

I like the JS41.I don't get artefacts. It is heavier on frames than some, but for the amount of work and detail in it .. It is quite acceptable.I think the OP could possibly be said to be ranting, rather than trolling ... A point which is quite distinct.He has some valid opinions, but not all agree. Perhaps this thread serves to show us that?Whether or not peoples' expectations are reasonable is always open to interpretation.Personally, I think it hard to reasonably ask for your money back because the product is not to your liking.It is what it is, and pretty damn good at that.

[martin-w 3,234]

I said I wouldn't post, but as a few more polite and sensible individuals have arrived I will.I will also post for another reason...I speak my mind, if I think a product is good i will say so, if I think a product is bad i will say so. I will also say so if I have misjudged.Well I have... to a degree.I have now set all options in the configuration manager to the minimum. Lowest setting for panel and low version for both external and VC. The result is much better frame rate. And in addition, a weird bug in regard to the engine instruments, that pretty much blanked out one of the readouts is now fixed. The low setting doesn't seem to have affected quality much at all.However... I still have the bloody annoying flickering panel, and of course the super loud sound.The sound, I figure I "may" be able to fix myself, and with a new monitor shortly on the way with a higher native res, and with the FPS latitude now available it may be more to my liking.So while not exactly to my expectations, i have improved the frame rate considerably and am hopefull for an acceptable outcome.You may call me a "troll" but this troll is an honest troll and capable of injecting some positivity when warranted.I wonder who the trolls really are?

Edited January 19, 2012 by martin-w

[Paul_Smith 92]

As the one who accused you of trolling, I think a little clarification is in order. I agree with hcornea that your original post was over the top and probably bordering on rant but it was not trolling as such. However, when you later claimed that you could not learn about the products requirements, strengths and limitations before purchase, well... that was pushing it a bit.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Paul_Smith

[WotanUK 289]

I only get the artifacts if i reload the aircraft without shutting down FSX first and reloading the sim. I have never had them during the first flight. The sound is bad...very bad, i wish there was an easy way to fix that. Performance is actually pretty good, not as good as the NGX but OK. I understand that PMDG cannot keep putting patches out, but i would be a VERY happy loyal customer if they fixed the sound issue!!! :(

[martin-w 3,234]

As the one who accused you of trolling, I think a little clarification is in order. I agree with hcornea that your original post was over the top and probably bordering on rant but it was not trolling as such. However, when you later claimed that you could not learn about the products requirements, strengths and limitations before purchase, well... that was pushing it a bit.

That's "learn about" In regard to the PMDG website. I didn't say I couldn't have researched on the forum.I also said earlier in the thread, that I "should" have done more research before buying. Unfortunately though, I did too little and trusted PMDG's reputation. I blamed my self for that.Whether i did research or not, it has no bearing on whether it's right that a developer should fix or not fix remaining issues. A customers failure to research remaining issues, does not exonerate a developer. Edited January 19, 2012 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,234]

I only get the artifacts if i reload the aircraft without shutting down FSX first and reloading the sim. I have never had them during the first flight.The sound is bad...very bad, i wish there was an easy way to fix that.Performance is actually pretty good, not as good as the NGX but OK.I understand that PMDG cannot keep putting patches out, but i would be a VERY happy loyal customer if they fixed the sound issue!!! :(

I get them with the first flight Ian. It's almost like light bleeding through between the VC elements, where panels join. As you pan around they flicker like crazy. I've tried higher res and it helps a fraction, but not much.I will see what it's like when my new monitor arrives.I wonder if it's possible to tone down the sound ourselves. I haven't had much experience with sound files though so not sure. Or perhaps there's a utility of some kind that would do it?Dan mentioned a method earlier, or was it in the other thread.

[martin-w 3,234]

I wonder if FS Sound Studio would do it?

[WotanUK 289]

I don't know enough about the topic to comment on editing sound files sorry.Interesting, i wonder if we have the same graphical glitches, mine are basically light like triangles that emenate from the centre. Now i run windowed mode at 5970x1080 using eyefinity and frankly i also thought that perhaps this was the cause Ryan from PMDG indicated that it's the FSX graphics engine hitting the limit, i can except that, but obviously i'd be less understanding if, like you, this happened all the time.Despite the above i still think that the J41 is the 2nd best plane written for FSX, after the truely amazing NGX. Although on occasion (in my opinion very rare occasion) PMDG's customer service isn't great they unquestionable make the best aircraft.

[martin-w 3,234]

I have two distinct graphical anomalies Ian.The worst, is a gigantic triangle that appears through the cockpit window. So affecting the scenery not the panel. I hit alt enter and back to full screen again and it vanished. Haven't been on a long enough flight since to see if the lower settings have helped.I have a screenshot of it actually, I'll try and post it tomorrow for you to see.The second anomaly, visible permanently, is around the edge of certain VC panel features. Around the edges of the PFD for example, and around the spoiler arm switch. One or two other areas affected too. It's basically a white line around those features. As you pan around, they flicker badly. They flicker to a lesser degree on their own too.So the first anomaly may be similar, but sounds like not the second Ian. :(

Edited January 19, 2012 by martin-w