Angle of Attack Training

[Devinci 0]

A suggestion for your next projects would be to at least finish half of the training before letting know the customers. I make video tutorials myself just driven by the passion but even so it takes times and a lot of work. While making the NGX video tutorials I had to edit over 150Gb of data and it wasn't easy. It's not because it's free that it is unprofessional as some said in this topic.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Devinci

[Guest dlrk]

Chris,I must say, that I strongly take issue with recent changes in your advertising and website. Both strongly apply that it is complete(for example, the product page says in big letters, 'complete downloadable training', and the bottom says 'ready for the full training now?') , and it's incomplete status is barely mentioned on the order page. The continual advertising on websites also seems misleading.

[Fabo 213]

So AoA is the AirSimmer of training videos?

To me, it seems more of a Level-D sim.Delivered greatly in past, being at one time the pinnacle of simulation in the meaning that the NGX now is (with their 767), with a promising new product they ought to have all the expertise needed to get it done (757), instead they just keep on insisting it is being worked on and it will be good, but only release something, that while being nice in itself, is by no means what everyone is expecting (767 Winglet expansion)

[WebMaximus 372]

Regarding refunds, we've had several people over the last few days request refunds from us after about 6 months, outside of our 30 Day Refund timeframe. We have certainly done refunds outside this timeframe before, and we still do on a case by case basis. However, what sparked these few people to request a refund is because we said we'd most likely have a video out Wednesday, and when that didn't happen, some threw their arms in the air.We believe we're fixing most of the issues facing this project right now, and we don't see any point in breaking our own policies in mass form right when things are finally going to start getting better.I've been kind and forthcoming about these refunds, and believe me, we've had a lot of people ask for them and get them, especially initially.

Chris,I'm one of the guys who asked for a refund but I'm not one of the guys who "threw their arms in the air" because of a video that wasn't released Wednesday. I didn't even know one was meant to be released since I've since long stopped checking for updated content for obvious reasons.I will not be long-winded today, I already posted my view on all this in detail here -> http://www.flyaoamedia.com/forum/pmdg-737ngx-training/a-refund-question/ and I'm still waiting for you to answer to my last post in that thread. I figured the silence most probably was equal to "No, I/we will not give you a refund" but reading your post here where you say you've been kind and forthcoming gives me new hope. Below is my last post in the AoA forum regarding all this.Thanks for your thorough answer Chris.I hear what you say and for your sake I hope you will be able to match it but honestly I think in the situation you are right now with quite a number of customers who are not happy and some of them actually feel cheated I don't think it's a very wise decision from a business perspective to refuse unhappy customers to get a refund with the excuse the purchase was made way back in time. That would be OK with a "normal" product where you get 100% of it right from the start but not in this case where you won't have a fair chance to know if you're happy with the purchase within that 30 day time limit.I'm a very serious flight simmer Chris and I've "been around" in the FS community for many years now and tried many different products throughout these years and I don't very often ask for refunds but in this case I do. I can't tell you how you should run your business but I've been in the sales business myself and in the IT business as a consultant for nearly 20 years and one of the first things I learned was that your nr 1 thing on the list in all situations is to keep the customer happy and if you for some reason are not able to the best thing you can do is to in a very polite and friendly way ask if there is anything you can do to make the customer happy again and if not let the customer get his money back and tell him you're sorry you were not able to make him happy this time but that you're hoping you will be able to next time. The last thing you want to do is starting to make excuses to a customer who clearly already "had it" and especially if you clearly can put yourself in his shoes.So…again…thanks Chris for your answer and looking at the good reputation your company always have had in the FS business it's very likely I'll do more business with you in the future but in this particular case I'm not a happy customer and I actually feel both cheated and fed up with waiting and listening to excuses so please reconsider your decision not letting me get a refund.Best regards,Richard

[killerbee1958 0]

Christhanks for the explanation.I am one of these customers that bought the complete captain's package and, although i appreciate your explanation, it doesn't mean much too me anymore.I did it based on the excellent MD-11 training but, as you mention yourself, you have not been able to live up to this expectation (yet).I will not ask for a refund because i have seen what could come out of your studio's and once you have got your act together again i am still sure it will be worth it.SO some free advice from just one of your customers: Put your effort into setting this right. That is not done with the 100th excuse reply on this or any other forum. (although i do understand you have to mention something now and then)Refund people if they ask and charge them the full pond when they want to join later. (whether your cash position can take this i can not oversee of course).But dedicate your energy on delivering as much as possible. Sure this is S..T. Sure we are dissattified customers (and we have a right to be) but all this will be forgiven and forgotten once you start pushing out the remainder of the training at (or even better above) MD-11 training level. (at least this is true for me but i guess this goes for a lot of people)I wish you all the best and good business acumen making this happen

[TheDanger 182]

Once the 'framework' is in place and the videos are being released regularly then I will purchase for sure.May be an idea to leave the discounted captains package up for a while too at least until there are a decent amount of videos to download.

[pete_auau 1,152]

or give a third of a refund back for how long since most of them have had the use of some of the training packages that are out

[WebMaximus 372]

Christhanks for the explanation.I am one of these customers that bought the complete captain's package and, although i appreciate your explanation, it doesn't mean much too me anymore.I did it based on the excellent MD-11 training but, as you mention yourself, you have not been able to live up to this expectation (yet).I will not ask for a refund because i have seen what could come out of your studio's and once you have got your act together again i am still sure it will be worth it.SO some free advice from just one of your customers: Put your effort into setting this right. That is not done with the 100th excuse reply on this or any other forum. (although i do understand you have to mention something now and then)Refund people if they ask and charge them the full pond when they want to join later. (whether your cash position can take this i can not oversee of course).But dedicate your energy on delivering as much as possible. Sure this is S..T. Sure we are dissattified customers (and we have a right to be) but all this will be forgiven and forgotten once you start pushing out the remainder of the training at (or even better above) MD-11 training level. (at least this is true for me but i guess this goes for a lot of people)I wish you all the best and good business acumen making this happen

Excellent post!Just like Fred says my friendly advice to you is to focus on 1. "Getting rid" of the unhappy customers by letting them get a refund and by doing so making them less unhappy and likely many of them will then also be returning customers further down the road. Having lots of unhappy customers is in 99% far more expensive in the long run than taking the short term hit refunding them and 2. Do whatever you can to decrease the amount of excuses and increase the amount of delivered content to set things right and to reach that "further down the road" state ASAP.

[G7USL 117]

Chris,As you know, I am an avid supporter of AoA and have praised your work extensively.All of this controversy has been caused by a lack of communication my freind.You see, on Avsim, one person post's about a discontentment and immedietley, others chime in with their opinions. That is the nature of this beast. I often suggested to Nick that at least one 'Flight' video should be done, in order to satisfy people's needs. He understandably replied that, he had a schedule to work to and as you are the boss here, he was governed by your requirements.You often referred to, objectively in my opinion, to 'Airsimmer' as 'toast' on the 'FS Break' podcast's which I thought was rather unfair as to the fact that now that a new moderator over there is communicating with enquiries (Flex) and keeping us informed, which is what the previous guy failed at.Lack of communication is as bad as NO communication and the opinion here was that maybe AoA had become 'toast'.Now that you have made this post, people now know that your not, but it should have been made sooner.The previous 'mod' at Avsim told me that he didn't mind customers of Airsimmer complaining on that forum because "it was better for them to 'sound off' there than to bring it over to here, or for that matter any other forum.Avsim forums are the real hub of hardcore and casual simmers. Here is where they all come to investigate what is 'hot' in the sim world we all enjoy so it is here that you (In my opinion) should be promoting and communicating with your grateful customers. You can of course now, moderate it by acceptance for your customers only and leave the 'read' side of it open to everyone. Either way is the way to go.Let me also again, congratulate you for posting here and I hope that everyone appreciates your time taken out from your work to achieve this.

Edited February 25, 2012 by G7USL

[IFR7700 228]

Chris,::snip::All of this controversy has been caused by a lack of communication my freind.You see, on Avsim, one person post's about a discontentment and immedietley, others chime in with their opinions. That is the nature of this beast. I often suggested to Nick that at least one 'Flight' video should be done, in order to satisfy people's needs. He understandably replied that, he had a schedule to work to and as you are the boss here, he was governed by your requirements.::snip::

Chris has communicated extensively on the AoA forums. It's just been a bit repetitive.I don't think private communications between you and an AoA employee is appropriate on this forum. Can you not see you have put Nick in a compromised position? Nick is the only one left over there that has credibility.

[G7USL 117]

Dennis thank you for those kind words (not). You clearly have not read my post properly Do you do much Trolling or have you saved it all for me, without cause?

[Sekstifire 10]

He does a lot of trolling. This one was one of my favorites. Trying to moderate a moderator

[IFR7700 228]

First, I had to look up the term "trolling". I don't think I do a "lot of trolling", just voicing my opinions. If you could, would you post some example links? I am more than willing to adjust my online behavior if it is not appropriate. This "online social interaction" is new to me. I've never been a member of a forum until AVSIM. Is it not trolling when you lambast the owner of an online flight sim community member and tell him how to run his business?I read your post very carefully. My observation was you put Nick in the position of disagreeing with his "boss" in a public forum. I don't know about trolling, but that is just bad form. Yeah, I just noticed you are a "moderator". You should know better. Ban me if you want.

[AndyHagen 1]

Thanks for your update Chris,I usually restrain from being instructive, but there is one thing I know too much about to keep quiet. It is about timeframe communication, expectations and disappointments. Case AOrdering an item at a webshop at 25th of january, expected delivery 5th of february. Delivered 8th of february. Three days of waiting, getting more and more upset. Even more, since the webshop said it should arrive "any time now". Result: Anger and disappointment. Discontent. Case BOrdering an item at a webshop at 25th of january, expected delivery 10th of february. Delivered 8th of february. Two days early!! Result: Happy about the early delivery, cheerful. A feel of good customer service. Please note that the ordering date and the delivery date is the exact same, yet the customer experience can be dramatically different. Point is; always add a good buffer when giving release dates. Add a week or two if necessary, so you are absolutely sure there will be no delay. Ignore the whiners being disappointed because of the long timeframe. They will cheer when the video is delivered "early". This is a really easy trick. I have used it a lot, and it works every time. Regards,Andy

[KeithyGeorge 1]

I'll surely buy the NGX training again once its completeChris Palmer, you said..."The voice over guy is rock solid, and will give us professional (we don't even consider ourselves professional) level voice overs in a 24 hour turn around, edited and ready for the video."What I want to know is why have you stopped doing the voice overs? I bought your MD-11 training and think your MD-11 voice overs were very professional and very easy / exciting to listen to..

Edited February 25, 2012 by KeithyGeorge