Fan Forum Welcome everyone

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I haven't had much time to post anything here since we brought this forum online and I thought I would stop by, kick the feet up for awhile and partake in this new community at AVSIM. Hope you don't mind...Despite the circumstances under which this forum came to be, I have to say that I am impressed with everyone that has participated here so far. The maturity and willingness to discuss things as adults flies in the face of the apparent reasons you are here in the first place. AVSIM bans folk, but the reason for that banning has to be pretty egregious or results from violation of ToS' multiple times. And that brings me to a little fact that I am sure you will find, well, ironic... One of the protagonists in this Shakespearean tragedy, was actually banned from AVSIM for violation of our ToS' and repeated warnings. In light of what has transpired with your fine selves, I find it laughable now.Earlier, I deleted a message and posted a note about Personal Attacks. The content of the message deleted might have been marginally seen as a personal attack, but given the circumstances, I do not want the boys from down under to have any reason to point fingers here. You do not want that either, I am sure. My sensitivity to this results from a number of email that were sent back and forth between yours truly and one of the team there. I won't go into a lot of detail, but suffice to say that the typical bluster was issued and we were accused of committing a hostile act.So, if you see some sensitivities in Stephen's and my posts and reaction to your posts, please view them in that context.Back to the good stuff and what this forum is really for... It is always the staff of AVSIM's hope that we can serve our community in both good times and bad. I do not tolerate fools gladly (as anyone who knows me will attest to) and when I see folks being deprived, for lack of a better word, I tend to react. In this case, I think setting up this forum was an excellent suggestion by Stephen and I am very happy that we did so. And once again, this reaffirms the old adage.. If you suggest, be prepared to "own" the responsibility. Thanks for volunteering Stephen!!!Keep up the good works folks and I hope we can see this grow into an ORBX fan forum rather than the threat that they now see it as.

[1st fltsimguy 466]

Thanks Tom, you are aware of my feelings in this are all positive. I love this place - a better mouse trap. Great place to share some open dialog on the great Orbx products. Somehow I feel less constrained here, and thre are great folks here having some interesting discussions.Bravo!

[Ben Cap 89]

Appreciate the clarification! Hey, if you are a Tos abiding "citizen" what do you have to worry about? :(

[frostynz 1]

Hi Tom,Firstly I appreciate all you have done for the flightsim community over the years. Avsim is without question my first stop for any flightsim queries or research, so again, thank you for making this resource available.I do however query the real need for this sub-forum (unlike the new 'Wilco' one which is a must in my opinion due to their lack of a public forum). I have personally found the official ORBX forum an excellent place to post for any queries relating to their products and people like Tim or Ian always promptly answer even the most stupid questions I have.I have even been known to challenge something regarding their upcoming products and have seen a post not long after by JV addressing all my queries, so I believe they are a company that does listen to their customers!I have already seen a couple of posts on this sub-forum which I believe are completely incorrect based upon my own investigations into the subject.I think ORBX (unlike a few others) are a company that when they say will address issues via patch or a fix always do so in a timely manner so I am of the opinion that there would not be many users out there that could say the software they supply is buggy or doesn't work on their system. All these fixes are readily available from the 'front end' of their website.I believe this sub forum has come about due to their post Christmas sale and the reactions that followed, now whether I agree with their marketing strategy or not, I as the consumer made the decision to buy their products when I did and that's the end of it. To me its no difference to any other retail purchase a consumer makes, we invariably get the timing wrong. :smile:In summary I am concerned that this sub-forum will do more harm than good to ORBX as an organisation and I don't want to see it detract new future users from experiencing their software due to it becoming unrepresentive of the majority of users of their products.Best Regards Dave Frost

[Ben Cap 89]

In summary I am concerned that this sub-forum will do more harm than good to ORBX as an organisation and I don't want to see it detract new future users from experiencing their software due to it becoming unrepresentive of the majority of users of their products.

+1.

[alainneedle1 97]

Hi! Tom, I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly in a part of your post, do I get it right by thinking that after some exanged e-mailed with the gentleman down under your and Stephen sensitivity will be in accordance with what they see fit?Here is what I'm referring too... So, if you see some sensitivities in Stephen's and my posts and reaction to your posts, please view them in that context. Please tell me that without any personal attack we will be able to speak our mind and tell it like it is if the truth is spoken, regardless of what they are thinking down under...tell me that they are not pulling strings censorship wise here and I'll be happy, please do not think that I am questionning your integrity but since English is not my primary language I just want to make sure of the meaning of your post and I understand it correctly.Thank you.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Hi! Tom, I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly in a part of your post, do I get it right by thinking that after some exanged e-mailed with the gentleman down under your and Stephen sensitivity will be in accordance with what they see fit?

That's not what I meant at all... What I meant was that given the, er, attitude there, that I do not want personal attacks. Personal attacks would do no good for anyone and are a violation of our ToS' in any case. Having any influence here is the furthest from anything you need to be concerned about.

In summary I am concerned that this sub-forum will do more harm than good to ORBX as an organisation and I don't want to see it detract new future users from experiencing their software due to it becoming unrepresentive of the majority of users of their products.

When, and if, it starts to do more harm than good, we will reassess. However, I cannot see how a fan forum would detract from an official support forum. If I were the boys at ORBX, I would be excited that one more forum exists to spread the word and provide free advertising. Anything other than that is short sighted in my opinion.

[frostynz 1]

Hi Tom,my problem with the above is how do you 'measure' if it's doing more good than harm? My initial impression of this sub-forum is that it's not really started off as a 'Fan Forum' rather more a disgruntled forum for some ORBX users.Regards Dave Frost

[alainneedle1 97]

That's not what I meant at all... What I meant was that given the, er, attitude there, that I do not want personal attacks. Personal attacks would do no good for anyone and are a violation of our ToS' in any case. Having any influence here is the furthest from anything you need to be concerned about.

Thank you for clarifying that Tom, I just wanted to make sur I understood your post as it was written.

[alainneedle1 97]

Hi Tom,my problem with the above is how do you 'measure' if it's doing more good than harm? My initial impression of this sub-forum is that it's not really started off as a 'Fan Forum' rather more a disgruntled forum for some ORBX users.Regards Dave Frost

You should ask this question to Orbx, unhappy customers (for what ever their reasons are) did not ask to be like that, something had to happen for them to feel unhappy about the way they were treated down under, if what ever is posted here is the truth and nothing but the truth....where can you go wrong, no censorship needed.

[frostynz 1]

You should ask this question to Orbx, unhappy customers (for what ever their reasons are) did not ask to be like that, something had to happen for them to feel unhappy about the way they were treated down under, if what ever is posted here is the truth and nothing but the truth....where can you go wrong, no censorship needed.

I respect your views Alain, but how are unhappy ORBX users (for whatever their reasons are as you say) going to be a fair reflection of ORBX products in a 'Fan Forum'?Regards Dave

[alainneedle1 97]

Dave, I have not see somebody here bashing Orbx product because they are unhappy with it, I am the first one to say that Orbx does have excellent products as I myself have a lot of them, unhappy Orbx customers are just telling others about the way they feel they were treated in Orbx's forum and were puzzled to see what was happening in this regard.I can tell you that if I give support to my customers for the products they got from me (the best product or not) but had blocked their phone number from my list because they don't agree with me I can assure you that I'll loose a lot of their business faster then I can type this post, who's fault will it be?

[frostynz 1]

Dave, I have not see somebody here bashing Orbx product because they are unhappy with it, I am the first one to say that Orbx does have excellent products as I myself have a lot of them, unhappy Orbx customers are just telling others about the way they feel they were treated in Orbx's forum and were puzzled to see what was happening in this regard.I can tell you that if I give support to my customers for the products they got from me (the best product or not) but had blocked their phone number from my list because they don't agree with me I can assure you that I'll loose a lot of their business faster then I can type this post, who's fault will it be?

Alain, I don't fundamentally disagree with you, and agree that people that don't have access to the 'Official' forum may want to post elsewhere. However the Avsim forums I would argue are one of the best, largest and most influential forums within the flightsim community and I don't want to see future prospective customers of ORBX put off trying out their products because they 'will' read negetivity on this sub-forum whether it is justified or not, which I don't believe is a true reflection of the current majority of the ORBX user base.

[alainneedle1 97]

Dave, I clearly understand what you are saying, but I dont completely agree with your point of view, I am sure that if Orbx change their position about the way they do business with their customers what you see as a "potential" problem for future prospective will vanish as fast as it came.I saw a post where some of their customers were taged as been "ungratefull" ( I think that's the word they used) because they raised their voice about a Christmas sale, I'm sure somebody here can correct me if I'm wrong. I've always praised their products but the way they treat their customers if you dare challenge them is, to me, unacceptable, is there a need to post our unhappiness here about the way Orbx is conducting themself in a specific matter.....no.... as their is no need to keep quiet.

[FreeBird(Josh) 314]

I think here we can exchange are knowledge of hardware, tweaks and other add-on products that will make our FSX and Orbx products even better. Orbx"s forum is not a social site ,it is just Tech support for their products and a place where they can introduce and tell you about their stuff. They have stated that this is what it is there for. Here as Orbx customers we can exchange ideas and express ourselves in a hospitable environment. We all love their products. There might be a few here that want to bash them but that won't be tolerated as stated. There is allot of knowledge here that is not allowed to be talked about over there, for as I have stated there forum is for support and nothing else and that is the way they want it. Can you blame them. I dont like the way they have handled the situation over there and I whould never treat any of my customers that way. But to each there own.Josh

Edited January 30, 2012 by JoshKemp