My take on MS Flight... and the future of simming

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

They have only themselves to blame for their disappointment now.

Thanks for clearing that up. My bad for wanting a FS11.

[Francois_Dumas 10]

my question is "whats diferent from taxing around in FSX with a cessna 172 at hilo taking off and flying around than taxing around with some extra content aircraft in flight ???.

I can't tell you. There IS no Cessna in MS Flight to try it with.However, if there WOULD be, I'd compare it with a nice scenery add-on of Hawaii, and a Carenado Cessna for instance, and enjoy the added scenery, the ATC talking to me, the AI aircraft around me....... all of which I haven't found in Flight yet.

[rtodepart 761]

francois you dont have to tell me details because i already know . and yes i know Hilo feels empty with no AI .the reason i ask is becuase the few of us that spend time till this day in the beta should know that there are basic things you were able to do with FSX and those things are there in flight but like you said if we get into those little details we get ourselfs in NDA trouble . the point is some guys dont know whats coming in the future to the MS market for flight but once again ta few core things are there in flight ..

[Rush1169 0]

I can't tell you. There IS no Cessna in MS Flight to try it with.

Obviously, there will be.

However, if there WOULD be, I'd compare it with a nice scenery add-on of Hawaii, and a Carenado Cessna for instance, and enjoy the added scenery, the ATC talking to me, the AI aircraft around me....... all of which I haven't found in Flight yet.

Or you could say, "However, when the 172 is released, I'll compare it with a nice scenery add-on of Hawaii, and a Carenado Cessna for instance, and enjoy the added scenery, the ATC talking to me, the AI aircraft around me. . .and I'll keep in mind that I paid $30 for smooth-as-butter Flight and $189 for the other that studders, slide-shows, crashes, has weird graphical glitches, and an ATC that makes me go-around 6 times."I'm just poking. Who knows, maybe Flight will never have a 172 or ATC.

[xplanery 250]

Mmh, I dont believe that adding whole world in small DLC´s will ever work. If they DLC that covers whole world in lets say FSX default quality, and then other DLC´s to make some areas better (just like payware addons for FSX), then Flight could have future as longhaul simulator, of course only if they still also release ATC, AI and all other stuff needed.Still, after that there is no way MS could match lots of invidual addon devs for FSX in terms of coverage and realism of airplanes systems. To get really longhaul community interested (or at least those who buy products from PMDG, Ifly, Wilco and such) it would be pretty much essential to also release full third party addon support.As a GA simulation with small but high quality areas Flight could have future as it is now.

Edited February 8, 2012 by FScamp

[pilota 0]

Well written Francois!!! you wrote what real Sim Hobbyists feel about a friend turning his back on you for a few dollars. If people would not be so caring and adoring dollars this would be a friendlier place....I thank God I am not a millionare, who the hell needs so much dough????...anyways, only those in the Hobby that can get into a cold cockpit and get the plane up, set up the VORS and fly with real weather, follow maps and can understand Stars sa well as those following that route.. can really understand why we hobbyist feel what we do about MS and its Flight game...many, as I read above, Play with FSX , FS9, X-Plane as a game and surely can´t see the difference, they are excused.......go play in the yard boys, later do your homework and only then play with your Flight game...I said!!!

Edited February 8, 2012 by pilota

[Attila 2]

There's that sense of entitlement again? Why would you expect that someone's next product be just like the last one? Is there some law that requires it? Would it be a nice to have? Absolutely, but it's never a given and all the ranting and hyperbole in the world won't change that...For context, my relationship with Flight Simulator started with Bruce Artwick's offering in the mid eighties so I have a similar length of relationship with the franchise as you.You are absolutely allowed to feel whatever you like, however feeling flabbergasted, surprised even shocked is quite different from feeling that you are owed or are entitled to something from Microsoft. Why would they owe you anything except to deliver a good product for which you have payed... In the case of Flight, you won't have payed anything initially so it's a moot point anyway.I'm not sure of the reason behind those quotes above, but for what it's worth, I don't see anything particularly relevant to my question regarding the entitlement mentality that seems to have pervaded this forum, I see a series of statements that were relevant when taken in context of the time they were uttered. My whole point is "Things change, we need to move on..." rather that than this continuous wailing and bleating about how bad Microsoft are for not giving us what we feel we are entitled to.We still have FSX, P3D and XP10. The world will not end if Flight is not what we expect and Microsoft will continue to exist possibly even grow and prosper regardless of whether we "simmers" buy Flight or not.

I don't know why you ride this entitlement horse. We are not feeling entitled. We are feeling misled, lied-to, manipulated etc.As for Flight being free, that's just pure BS. It is a demo. It is worth as much as any free demo, no more no less. The actual game (DLC) costs money, just like any other game.

[JSkorna 137]

I don't know why you ride this entitlement horse. We are not feeling entitled. We are feeling misled, lied-to, manipulated etc.As for Flight being free, that's just pure BS. It is a demo. It is worth as much as any free demo, no more no less. The actual game (DLC) costs money, just like any other game.

At least some people get it.

[Dillon 2,197]

Sorry, I was just applying the duck test:If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

I wrote this to you Arwen when you decided you were going to leave the forums because of the negativity you saw. Instread of modifying it for today's discussion I'm reposting it here. Your one of the new people that loves Flight to a fault that it makes people wonder. Like Francois has stated if you want a certain reaction you have to give that vibe out first or in may cases in return.

Arwen you put yourself in a position that you wouldn't had you been around this community for the last 20+ years. Your taking personal anger directed at a company that has played games with loyal customers (and internal Microsoft staff) that have fought hard to make this franchise very special over the years. Now things have went off the deep end. The trouble with being new is you haven't had the years of ups and downs with the Flight Simulator franchise. Yes you can say it's a game but this software has been responsible for more pilots in the last 20 years than any other. The dream of Bruce Artwick has been overshadowed by corporate greed. The firing of Aces and the development of Flight has officially tipped the scale in favor of those in Microsoft who's opposed Flight Simulator for years. It's like the Disney company without Walt. Disney would be a whole different company if Walt was still alive. With Bill Gates gone more than a few things have changed around Redmond... The creation of Flight Simulator was intended to be a PC based simulation of Flight not a game. X-Plane not being under the big corporate umbrella stuck with it's roots in how it marketed the sim but Microsoft strayed from that all the while keeping FS a simulation in it's truest form (they even took out the WWII module that was present in earlier versions like FS 4.0). The reason X-Plane is certified by the FAA yet it's inferior on many levels to FSX is because it was marketed for what it is. Microsoft has been in an identity crisis with Flight Simulator for years yet put millions into making it the top PC simulation of the civilian flight experience money can buy. The marketing suites must have been told one thing while Aces developed away with impunity in the direction of a true simulation... It was so good that many thought back in 2001 Flight Simulator helped the terrorist with training. Arwen being new you wouldn't know that even then suites at Microsoft wanted a Flight type of experience but someone powerful in the company would have non of that. FS2k2 was put on hold and almost didn't get released because of fear. This is the history I'm talking about that you may not have. I heard no knee-jerk reaction coming towards X-Plane after 9/11 showing which sim was the superior product even then yet today it has FAA certification. For years when news stations or anyone for that matter recreated a crash more times than not they use Flight Simulator as the platform to show what happened. All in all God only knows why Microsoft didn't just market Flight Simulator as a simulation like Lockheed is doing with Prepar3D today (a version of FSX for those that don't know). It certainly would have made since if companies Lockheed, Boeing, Cessna, and flight schools from around the world put their stamp of approval on the product for so many years.So I can see you getting offended and not understanding. New people never would or could understand. They see this one product and say, "What's all the fuss about it's only a game". If you've been around since 1986 you'd see the labor of love Aces and freeware/payware developers have put in it over the years. You'd empathize on how hard it is to learn a whole new way of doing things with each new version of FS but people keep going because it's a labor of love. You'd know or read about the pains of building planes in Flight Shop and GMAX or the extensive research it takes to bring detailed aircraft and airports to the virtual screen. This is where the anger comes from... I've used FS since 1986 you've most likely only been around since 2006 if that long and one version of FS (FSX one of the most problematic versions ever released next to FS2000). You jump on the side of a company that wants to shut this history down, control freedom of development, rewind the advancement that took years to develop (simulating the whole world), and expect to get a warm dialog from people. Your on the wrong side with this one and you shouldn't take it personal. Respect the history that's lasted for 20+ years and quit looking at it in the context of black and white only. The anger is not at you personally because you don't have the history many of us have but many of your comments about Flight is like a slap in the face to the vision of people like Bruce Artwick, the Aces team that brought us the whole world on one disc (which ended up being FS9 and FSX), the many freeware/payware developers who've contributed over the years, and many of the long standing fans of the franchise.

After posting my thoughts on my blog, word got out.... also onto Facebook where I spend most of my days nowadays.I had a brief encounter with Paul Lange, the man I see as the driving force behind MS Flight (he sure was behind theFSX Missions) and decided maybe someone here too is interested to get my views on what's happening........ or, in terms of flight SIMULATION on what is NOT happening. But should.....Find my blog post here.And as I already explained to Paul, this is not 'hate mail', just my opinion of what we as a flightsim community are missing....

Thanks so much for this Francois, great read... :( Edited February 8, 2012 by Dillon

[Skip Talbot 17]

We are feeling misled, lied-to, manipulated etc.

Your lofty expectations and misunderstanding of Microsoft's vague media hype misled you.

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

Thanks, Francios.I came to the conclusion some time ago that Flight is going to be a whopping disappointment. I half expect it to be released on xbox 360. That seems to be the target audience, judging by the laughable previews. And, who would have thought that by getting rid of Aces the Flight Simulator franchise could actually get worse?

[Mr.midnight 4]

One thing is for sure there has been a lot of pre talk of Flight and all the what ifs and aints and should haves, I am not looking forward to all the Aftertalk.FSX wore me out:).........Robert

[Attila 2]

Your lofty expectations and misunderstanding of Microsoft's vague media hype misled you.

This is because you knew better right? Congrats, you can enjoy Flight with the other 11 people who think like you.

[Dillon 2,197]

Your lofty expectations and misunderstanding of Microsoft's vague media hype misled you.

What's the first add-on you ever purchased? I'm asking because your very condesending of a standard that's been in place for years. The angry tone of some of you new members is interesting.

[Skip Talbot 17]

This is because you knew better right? Congrats, you can enjoy Flight with the other 11 people who think like you.

I didn't know better. I sat tight until the beta was released, shrugged, and went back to playing FSX.