Why can't we have a civil discussion about Flight...

[Guest dreckman]

You (know who you are) bash MSFT and Flight (sometimes rightfully so) and now the vitriol is directed at people who are only trying to have polite and open discussions about the product.The people who hate Flight and MSFT have made their points well known. Why do you insist on trolling the topics that are trying to discuss the product. Why are you still reading and posting in this forum and insulting new members because they don't have 2000+ posts. I would guess that most of the members at AVSIM are adults. yet, you guys are acting no better then the 13 year olds trolling the forums on other game sites (ie. World of Warcraft)And before you insult me yes I have played WOW - with my son, and have searched for info on their forums. I also have used versions of Flight Simulator for a very long time.I understand your disappointment. I was mad when MSFT folded ACES. Hell, I wish we had a new state of the art flight sim. I am neither praising or bashing Flight. I have not seen it.I have an idea what it is. My FSX with all the addons isn't going anywhere. But I will give Flight a look and maybe that is all it will lead to.But the negativity and attacks are only going to drive away new members who just might help grow the market which in the big picture is what we all want.It's just my observation and opinion. I only have about five posts. Happy Flying!-ed gallagher

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Ed, that is going to change. Folks bashing others for simply being willing to give the product a chance are going to find themselves having to hold their breath for awhile. Or, a "time out" as many know it.

[Guest russellbdavis]

All I can say is, I find much more enjoyment from Angry Birds on my PS3, than FLIGHT on my PC. Don't get me wrong, FLIGHT is a beautiful piece of software, but in a nutshell for me...boring.

[3-2-1-Now 126]

Umm - because MS screwed over its very long time fan base? I have been flying FS since V5.0 for DOS, and bought every version since then, not to mention how MS have screwed the 3rd party market!!!Just recently there was a major backlash in the UK over subsidies for solar panels, and how when the Government scrapped them how it would kill the industry, yet MS pull this stunt on Flight Simulator, and nothing gets said about it? The add-on market for FS must be worth a couple of million dollars. I alone spend a small fortune on FS, add-ons and associated hardware! I have likely under-estimated it by a good margin, too.Best regards,Robin.

[Rob Reev 5]

After years of lurking, searching and learning , I am posting for the first time. Neither pro or con Flight, I submit the following:By way of introduction, I am a 77 year old flightsim enthusiast. Many years ago I experienced the thrill of flight as a C-47 and B-26 crew member in the USAF. Being Color blind, I was unable to fulfill my dream of a becoming a professional pilot. FS98 thru FSX has allowed me to live that fantasy life.My computer, with a I7 950 cpu running at 4MHZ and with just about every scenery and aircraft add-on available runs FSX and P3D fluidly at high settings.....I could not be happier, and eagerly await the next release from PMDG,FlyTampa,FSDT,etc. And now the point of this post...My system performs exceptionally well and has everything installed that anyone interested in the challenge of flight could desire..... Enter my grandchildren and their friends (a college freshman to 6th grade and between); after ten to twenty minutes of play, they lose interest and without exception revert to their "two thumb games" for hours on end. Obviously, the mere challenge of flight in its self is not sufficient to hold the same level of interest to my offspring as it does to me. So, in the interest of curious science, I'll download Flight along with the first two available options on the 29th and submit it to my young test group. I am anxious to see if its built in gaming challenges will be enough to compete with their favorite games........Should be interesting.Robert

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

By way of introduction, I am a 77 year old flightsim enthusiast.

God bless you sir! I admire the tenacity, dedication and willingness to keep the brain challenged! I hope I can say the same when I get there (a mere 15 years from now)... It's taken you five years to post your first message here? Okay, now you are expected to go into overload and build that post count to a couple of thousand or so. :(

[ViperPilot 81]

Robert,Congratulations on your first post as a flight simmer, and I want to also sincerely thank you for your service to our country.It would be very interesting to hear your comments once your 'test group' has a chance to try Flight.Keep on flying! :biggrin:Alan :(

Edited February 10, 2012 by ViperPilot

[Guest dreckman]

By way of introduction, I am a 77 year old flightsim enthusiast.

Great post Robert.I can relate. My 14 year old son always "wanted to try" when I was flying. He now has his own copy of FSX and a flight stick.FSX doesn't see much action on his computer. When it does he and a friend are usually trying to do loops or rolls in a 747.Doesn't have the attention span for the intricacies of FSX at this stage. Will definitely introduce him to FLIGHT.-ed

[Guest dreckman]

Umm - because MS screwed over its very long time fan base?

...and I respect your opinion.But back to my original post, we should still be able to have forum topics discussing FLIGHT.Based on the actual information known at this point and without the trolling and attacks on OP's because there post count is not high enough.-ed

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

Ed, that is going to change. Folks bashing others for simply being willing to give the product a chance are going to find themselves having to hold their breath for awhile. Or, a "time out" as many know it.

I feel a time out coming my way! Well, for what it's worth, to the extent I have something negative to say, I focus my comments on the topic and not the person. That, I believe, is the essence of discussion. One interesting thing to point out is the etymology of he word "forum." It's Latin and once referred to the Forum Romanum in ancient Rome. While initially a simple civic center and market place, the Forum transformed over time to take on a crucial role as a place for religion and government. In addition to elections, triumphal processions and Senate assemblies (it was here that the Senate ordered Julius Caesar to abandon his military--an order he refused), this is where Marius debated Sulla. It's the place where Cicero denounced Catiline. The Forum became the center of public discourse and, in some sense, the birth place of the Roman Empire after Octavius was given the title Augustus by the Senate. The debates an speeches were passionate and encouraged citizens to rebuke one another. Tom, we no doubt use the word "forum" lighly, without given much thought to what it means or it's historical significance. But, I sincerely hope that the silencing you alluded to will be reserved for truly insulting behavior rather than as a tool to discourage honest disagreement. Edited February 10, 2012 by Lawyer+Pilot

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I sincerely hope that the silencing you alluded to will be reserved for truly insulting behavior rather than as a tool to discourage honest disagreement.

Of course it will. Attack an idea and that's okay. Attack a person and that will get you slapped, spanked or whatever your favorite punishment might be.

[Guest dreckman]

ne interesting thing to point out is the etymology of he word "forum." It's Latin and once referred to the Forum Romanum in ancient Rome. While initially a simple civic center and market place, the Forum transformed over time to take on a crucial role as a place for religion and government. In addition to elections, triumphal processions and Senate assemblies (it was here that the Senate ordered Julius Caesar to abandon his military--an order he refused), this is where Marius debated Sulla. It's the place where Cicero denounced Catiline. The Forum became the center of public discourse and, in some sense, the birth place of the Roman Empire after Octavius was given the title Augustus by the Senate. The debates an speeches were passionate and encouraged citizens to rebuke one another.

It's not the honest constructive disagreement we are complaining about. But we are seeing the same people stating the same(non-constructive) negative views about MSFT and FLIGHT over and over in every thread that tries to have a civil discussion about FLIGHT. If you challenge them in anyway they attack. There are multiple posts now about this problem.-ed Edited February 10, 2012 by dreckman

[Marith 2]

By way of introduction, I am a 77 year old flightsim enthusiast.

Hi Robert,Thanks for your interesting post. As someone who normally lurked until MS Flight, welcome and I hope we get more posts from you. It will be interesting after your grandchildren and their friends have tried MS Flight if you posted what they thought of it.

But back to my original post, we should still be able to have forum topics discussing FLIGHT.

I am sure, Ed, that the forums will eventually return to discussions about Flight but it is difficult for us non-betas as we don't know much about it apart from what we can glean from the Marketing material on the web.Maybe after the initial anger dies down after Feb 29th and we all have had a chance to try, like or dislike it, discussions will turn more civil. But I'm not expecting that on March 1st. Edited February 10, 2012 by Marith

[simmerhead 885]

The personal insults are making everybody in these forums look bad. Thanks for speaking up!

[Johan_Dees 84]

It's not the honest constructive disagreement we are complaining about. But we are seeing the same people stating the same(non-constructive) negative views about MSFT and FLIGHT over and over in every thread that tries to have a civil discussion about FLIGHT. If you challenge them in anyway they attack. There are multiple posts now about this problem.-ed

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam." (Moreover, I advise that Carthage must be destroyed)You can constant repeat your statement, its been done before. :(