What this forum looks like to a new simmer

[Gundamnitpete 0]

This is a Post from Garsand, About the general attitude here in the Flight forum. Read it carefully, and examine how someone would feel if they came here, looking for fun, knowledge, and how to stick those damn ILS landings, lol

So in a post that I am told that at AVSIM there a very friendly bunch, the first thing that happened is a member attacked a fellow member of AVSIM.That was not very friendly, an that is what's been happning to me, I keep on getting attacked by FSX fans because I chose to like MS Flight.In the 10-15 years that I have been followling games online I have never come across such strage behavior. I don't go around nor do I feel any need to go around & attack there joy of FSX. Nor any other game that I don't like.So why do they do it to me?I can't even ask for help, I am scared to, as I don't want the hate posted at me. I am fedup with it.But I am told this >> a little respect in how you deal with other members is a requirement.Would the respect be if I say I need help for FSX tho really its MS Flight I need the help with but I have to keep it as my dirty little secret.If anyone wishes to prove me wrong & show me that AVSIM is a friendly place for new MS Flight users then please do.

This is how Avsim looks to an outsider.

[Guest jahman]

At this point, friendly or otherwise, no one can offer assistance on Flight without breaking the NDA, and thus going against Forum Rules.Discussion on the merits and demerits of Flight I think is legitimate, but perhaps could be moved to a specific subforum so the Flight main forum remains free for offering advice after Flight is released on February 29th,Cheers,- jahman.

Edited February 14, 2012 by jahman

[Guest BlueRidgeDx]

Perhaps if people like "gundamnitpete" didn't run around telling people on the beta forums that Avsim is an "overflowing toilet", maybe he'd have the courage to post here in confidence.Besides, I'm getting really tired of the constant use of the word "hate" to describe what is actually rational dissenting opinion. I clearly have a different opinion about flight than either Garsands or gundamnitpete, yet I was able to welcome the new guy. Is that hateful?

[Gundamnitpete 0]

Perhaps if people like "gundamnitpete" didn't run around telling people on the beta forums that Avsim is an "overflowing toilet", maybe he'd have the courage to post here in confidence .

i say it here in a manner befitting the forum rules. It is no secret that I do not find Avsim welcoming of new members, and that this forum is filled with trolls:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/362216-okay-folks-get-a-grip-time-is-upon-us/page__view__findpost__p__2255335Up until recently I figured this forum was going to be closed. Mods have said it isn't, so i've tried to help those i can.

Besides, I'm getting really tired of the constant use of the word "hate" to describe what is actually rational dissenting opinion.I clearly have a different opinion about flight than either Garsands or gundamnitpete, yet I was able to welcome the new guy. Is that hateful?

If you are not the problem, then help us work toward the solution.

[dighost 25]

There have been a few rude comments, but nothing malicious or over the line. The thing people forget is that words on screen can be taken in any context that you want. I could innocently say "Hey pal, good luck" and someone might take that as being sarcastic-- or it could be a well wish. Problem is everyone is thin skinned nowadays and politically correct.

[Barnstormer1 0]

this forum is filled with trolls:

No. Meany Ogres. :( Edited February 14, 2012 by Barnstormer1

[Gundamnitpete 0]

lol, something like that^

[xplanery 250]

Avsim is really nice outside Flight forum. But anyway I suggest that best way would be just encouraging new people go to FSX or X plane 10 forums to look for awesome simulator with 25 000 airports instead of coming here to see debate beetween Flight supporters and dislikers. Nobody really needs this forum for technical questions anyway as like said there is still NDA.Things will probably calm down a bit in few weeks after release of Flight.I personally have never felt that even this forum would be too unfriendly to anyone. Bad trolls and personal attackers seem to be taken care of very well.

Edited February 14, 2012 by FScamp

[Attila 2]

There is on

i say it here in a manner befitting the forum rules. It is no secret that I do not find Avsim welcoming of new members, and that this forum is filled with trolls:http://forum.avsim.n...ost__p__2255335Up until recently I figured this forum was going to be closed. Mods have said it isn't, so i've tried to help those i can.If you are not the problem, then help us work toward the solution.

With your recent flurry of unnecessary posts, you have become the number one problem in this forum - and in the other one too.

[Gundamnitpete 0]

There is onWith your recent flurry of unnecessary posts, you have become the number one problem in this forum - and in the other one too.

Well, if people disagree with my opinions, why am i to do? Feel free to look through my posts, and let me know which ones are over the line.The other forum will be done in 12 hours, and i think i've posted twice in the past week. I prefer to vote and submit feeback, although it is nice making a few friends over there :()that :( is supposed to be a smiley with a nose, like this :^)

[EagleSkinner 36]

Sadly the OP is right. Avsim members HAVE gone out of their way to ridicule Flight, Flight's developers and Flight's testers. Even more sadly, I am inclined to agree that Flight may well be a step in the wrong direction...BUT...Flight is just another facet of this fascinating hobby of ours. Some users will prefer the simplistic aspects of the game and other new users will want more, erm... "realism". Fine. Have "we" (the die hard flight simmers) actually lost anything? Not in the slightest! Does Flight prevent us enjoying our hobby? Not in the slightest! Will Flight players be any kind of lesser being for liking it? Not in the slightest!So it would be nice if established Avsim members remember that they are not some kind of Übermensch and that they are no better than the people who just want to play around.What do I know about this? I'll tell you in March. Maybe.

[Arwen 289]

I also have to agree with the OP. I honestly like Flight, and I've taken a LOT of hits here because my opinion of Flight is contrary to many others here. I've never once stated that Flight was perfect . . . in fact, I've posted that MS has made decisions with Flight that I have strongly disagreed with. I'm going to remain here, and I'm going to continue to support Flight. Once Flight is released, I'm expecting that a lot of new people are going to check out this forum, looking fur help (or to just to see what members here think of specific DLC). I'll try to help these new members, and I'm sure that many others here will as well. If some members here don't like Flight, that's totally fine . . . I'm not out to convert any of you. But it would really be nice if you would let people like me post some positive things about Flight, without our posts becoming targets for you to ridicule. AVSIM stands to gain a lot of new members because of Flight. I would like them to feel welcomed here . . . rather than afraid to post.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Arwen

[nbz 4]

But anyway I suggest that best way would be just encouraging new people go to FSX or X plane 10 forums to look for awesome simulator with 25 000 airports instead of coming here to see debate beetween Flight supporters and dislikers. Nobody really needs this forum for technical questions anyway as like said there is still NDA.

True, currently we can not discuss technical questions.But when, after Flight is officially released, we see new people come in because they have become Flight users, I respectfully disagree that we should try to immediately convert them to True Flight Simmers by pointing them to our preferred complex sim. If the new guys really get seriously into PC flying, and desire more options, functions, land coverage etc., they will find out by themselves why AVSIM has specific forum sections for different sims.Due to the usual reason I can not be too specific, but let me say it this way: Flight may or may not appeal to you, me, and a lot of others, because it is inevitably compared to what each of us has already installed, and what we can do, now, with what we already have.BUT, the stated goal of Flight is to bring in new people and get them started with flying, and interested in it. We have all discussed at length how casual action-seeking 14 year-olds will likely miss the "feature" of blowing stuff up, and how hunting Aerocaches and flying through hoops can't be expected to be exciting forever.... and I believe/guess that MS actually agrees. Hoops and caches are a means... Flight is not about arcade stunts, it still is about the act of Flying An Airplane.It is not, at least not now, the complex beast we have come to expect from "the franchise". But I believe that MS did an outstanding job of making PC flying more accessible, and running just fine without any tweaking, for beginners. For THIS purpose, it indeed is the best thing since sliced bread. We should let it work with, and capitalize on, this strength.Flight should have its place on this forum just like the other sims. I do not have X-Plane or FS9 installed but have no reason to question the validity, or status, of their respective forums.(Also, let me reveal a secret: Flight will NOT wipe FSX off your harddrive. I suspect the same holds true for other sims.)

[Ben Cap 89]

Even more sadly, I am inclined to agree that Flight may well be a step in the wrong direction...

I think differently. You are commiting the "is ought" fallacy by not adopting some kind of new change. Just cause it has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it should be like that.I think that the change that is headed our way is for the best.

[ViperPilot 81]

What does this Forum look like to a New Flight Simmer?That's easy... I think it looks just like the Rants and Raves Forum on Craigslist.(I'd post a link, but the content is so vitriolic it's not worth it.)Isn't our aim, as a community, to attract more simmers to our hobby? Or is it to alienate or bully them?What would you ask (or for that matter, tell) a new simmer regarding our hobby?I'd ask what drew them to Flight, and what brought them here to the Forums. Ask them if they would like to explore the hobby further.Ask them if they know a lot about flying and aviation history. Do they know anyone who's a pilot?I'd tell them what drew me to Flight Sim; being able to pretend I was Lindbergh flying over Dingle Bay. Pretending I was Pete Mitchell,climbing in my F-14 over NAS Fallon looking for Jester in his A-4. Bringing Global 2 into Runway 29 at Lincoln Intl. Airport after the bomb went offin the Starboard Lavatory. Landing a DHC-2 Anik on a small sandbar.Yeah... Flight may not be what 'traditional' simmers are looking for, but that's not a new simmer's fault. He's (or she's) trying something new. At one timeall of us did exactly the same thing, whether it was MSFS, XP, IL-2, Jane's, USNF '97, Fighter Duel, X-Wing vs.TIE Fighter... whatever.We all found something special in this hobby. Let's help the newcomers do the same thing.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ViperPilot