Question for all the pi##ed 3PD about Flight...

[ahuimanu 50]

Both freeware and payware devs have no clear means of modifying content or providing new content in Flight.The Flight apologists do not seem to realize that less is not more, it is just less. Empirical observation suggest that much has been lost in Flight. If some of the apologists have really been around long enough, they'd know that Microsoft's track record in add-on quality has never matched what the true 3rd Party market has produced. It remains to be seen what subcontractors to Microsoft will produce for the DLC market, but it is clear that some degree of oversight and "tether" from and to Microsoft will influence the products that make it. I just don't think that Microsoft has any further commitment to "as real as it gets."In truth, Microsoft probably stands an even chance of succeeding with their "Disney" Flight game. Those of us who relied on the previous product to work at simulating a wide variety of flight profiles to a high degree of fidelity are the most impacted by this. Those who supplied the software, hardware, and general ecosystem which sustained high-fidelity flight simulation are also equally affected.The serious disenfranchisement of a segment of our community is increasingly trivialized by a chorus of the apologists and that is only salt in the wound. It seems as though it would have been possible to please many parties with Flight rather than seriously gutting it on the premise of smoothing the learning curve and providing accessibility.There are many soapboxes to queue up to orate upon in this situation. As such, it is clear that the OP is standing on one of these soapboxes. Moreover, the OP is likely nothing more than an jab meant to incite (as opposed to coax insight). We certainly don't need any more smugness from those of you "in the know." The OP's question seems to have quite easy answers - the DLC business model, coupled with a lack of a widely-available SDK, means that the old paradigm is threatened by Flight. Nobody likes to be on the losing side of change. Lastly, I'm not convinced that we are all bashing the product for what it sets out to be. No, I suspect that we are mourning the lost opportunity for a new chapter; Flight just seems like a tabloid magazine in comparison for some of us.I will not begrudge those that will enjoy the new game, and I really don't wish Microsoft failure. But I am forlorn that the lifestyle I had grown accustomed to does not appear likely to return.

[curt1 79]

I think the anger stems from an ever increasing splintering of simmers into different base products. 3PD's can't develop for more than a couple flying platforms at a time. Developing for numerous simulations isn't cost effective, they would surely take a loss for their efforts. We have FS9 simmers, along with FSX, XP10, Prepar3d, and now Flight. For every simmer that makes Flight their new primary flying product, that makes for one less customer for 3PD's to sell to. I'm not a developer, but I can think like one...and I would want Flight to fail so my potential customer base doesn't shrink any more than it already has.MVGibbage beat my post by 3 minutes, but our thoughts are the same.

Edited February 15, 2012 by curt1

[meshman 109]

Why are some of you so mad about Flight been closed to you (3PD), as I understand, from some of your post, Flight will be a BIG flop, so why are you so mad? Not everyone is bashing Flight, glad you noticed/As some of you also said or think, Flight will only release small regions, so if I take that in consideration, how many of you (3PD) would it take to cover an area like Hawaii, so does MS really need 3PD for such small area like that? Depends upon the number of egos and the size of same to reach a proper number.Can you not keep making addons for FSX? Avsim ToU prohibits advertising by Commercial Members!Why bother with Flight if you all think that it will be dead in the water in a matter of weeks or months, I don't get it......or is it that you may be secretly scared of the fact that Flight may take off (pun intended) and by doing so addons for it will be a hit and you'll be left in the dust? First I am a flight simulation fan, then I am a developer. If a product takes care of all my wants I will gladly shut down my efforts at making the game better. Oprah may have left the building, but I can still watch Ellen, instead of mucking my through a bunch of ... (Please see Avsim ToU about advertising!)So, if Flight is to be a major flop (according to some of you 3PD) there is no threat to you, so why bashing the product....FSX still there is it not? As a person who enjoys the genre of flight simulation, I approach Flight with a (hopefully) open mind. I appraoch FSX, FS9 and others as a potential dev platform.

Alain, shouldn't you be getting some rest for your next "fishing" trip. You're not a young-ish man aymore.... :(

[Guest dreckman]

Both freeware and payware devs have no clear means of modifying content or providing new content in Flight.

You are correct, at this point in time. The product has not been released yet. Has MSFT stated absolutely no 3PD will ever be considered.If I missed it then my apologies and never-mind. Other wise lets wait and see.The majority of most of us so-called "apologists" have taken this attitude. Wait and see.There has been a lot of hyperbole and conjecture on both sides of the argument. It does make for some heated (and sometimes entertaining) exchanges.But again, all the cards have not been played. Until then I and more then willing to wait and see.-ed

[Gibbage 199]

You are correct, at this point in time. The product has not been released yet. Has MSFT stated absolutely no 3PD will ever be considered.

Can you quote your source on this?

[Guest dreckman]

Can you quote your source on this?

Not sure what you mean. I was responding to ahuimanu, on 14 February 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:Both freeware and payware devs have no clear means of modifying content or providing new content in Flight.which at this point in time is true, correct? There is no FLIGHT SDK released. The product has not been released yet - this is posted all over - it comes out on 2/29.I was asking if MSFT has released a statement saying absolutely no SDK or 3PD allowed. If they have not stated this then it is not an absolute that there will never be one.Wait and see. You never know.-ed

[ahuimanu 50]

We are all acting on imperfect information, but I recall that select representatives from our community outlets were inviting in December 2011 to hold court with the developers. I also recall that it was pointedly asked and answered on the subject of SDK. The information from that time seemed to have strongly indicated: no SDK.If it develops in a year or so, well that will be that. I also find it difficult to discount the feedback and observations from 3PD organizations who have really innovatively pushed the boundaries of our last installment: FSX.

[Gibbage 199]

Sorry. I read that wrong. I thought you said that MSFT HAS said no 3rd party. We do know from other 3rd party groups who posted against there NDA's that MS has approached them, but they could not come to to terms. MS is going to have there own store, that much is known. If MS is going to sell it, they will have strict QC and have a say in what goes in, just like apps for Android, Apple, or WP7 phones. It seems standard to people outside of flight simming, but we have had out own way with MSFS for so long, its almost insulting to think MSFT want to controle there own product. How dare they! Also consider this. If I make a Boeing out of license, I dont worry about Boeing going after me. Why? Because I dont have any money for them to go after! Thats how we survive. We dont even show up on there radar. MS on the otherhand DOES have money. If they sell a product, they can be held liable for it. So there may be legal matters that will arise out of this also.

[Guest dreckman]

ahuimanu and MVGibbage,You guys are both correct. I I realize what has played out so far with MSFT and the 3PD community and it stinks.Guess I am just hoping MSFT changes their mind on some of the sticking points and gets it to work.False hope, maybe, but it's all we got at this point.-ed

Edited February 15, 2012 by dreckman

[RYR738 9]

Speaking as a 3rd party add-on maker. FSX market is dwindling, and rapidly. Not only that, but the few that are left over are super picky. Not only that, but almost every popular aircraft has been covered 3 times over. The most difficult thing right now is FINDING A PROJECT TO DO. 3rd party's were hoping Flight would be there next cash cow. Seems the farmer that owns that cow is tired of us milking it for free.

Well that about sums it up !The best post on the subject to date.Fred.

[Gibbage 199]

I hope MS changes there mind also. I would LOVE to have my Seabee in Flight.

[Guest dreckman]

I hope MS changes there mind also. I would LOVE to have my Seabee in Flight.

I recently purchased the - KCFS Republic RC-3 Seabee .It is a lot of fun to fly.-ed

[Gibbage 199]

Sorry. I cant talk about my own commercial product here. Against the Avsim ToS, but thanks!

[Guest dreckman]

Sorry. I cant talk about my own commercial product here. Against the Avsim ToS, but thanks!

No I am sorry. When you said "my Seabee" had a brain cramp.Was thinking it was just a plane you wanted to see in FLIGHT.Didn't realize you really meant "my Seabee".-ed

[Gibbage 199]

:(