So, here is a good example of how easy it is to misunderstand the written word. I was niether angry or emotional. Interesting that you took my post that way. Mitch is afraid that anything he writes might be used against him. I think we should all think twice before posting.

So, here is a good example of how easy it is to misunderstand the written word. I was niether angry or emotional. Interesting that you took my post that way. Mitch is afraid that anything he writes might be used against him. I think we should all think twice before posting.

Hi Bobbyjack, I wasn't saying that you were angry or emotional, I was saying that you were saying a lot of people in the MS Flight forum were emotional and posting in anger. I was emphasizing that I agreed with what you wrote. :( Sorry if I phrased that badly initially.

Just goes to illustrate my point. I'm not above misunderstanding someone. It's amazing there arn't more problems.

My belief in 'Freedom of Speech' is that there is a time and a place.....but not here.I also think that we are all guests on these forums and they have rules in their house.When I am a guest in someone's house I never feel like I have the right to say what I want because not only is that disrespectful to the owner of the house, also the owner of the house may kick me out and not welcome me back again.Therefore I wish to respect the rules of the house when I am visiting here, and pay my respect back to the owner by purchasing from his store from time to time.Cheers

Thank you not only for your support but also for sharing the same concept of AVSIM as a house for all of us to gather. I couldn't have said it better myself. And just so the OP knows, we haven't the time or the energy (and for some of us, not even the emotional captital) to be hovering over every new post like a falcon looking for its next prey. lol. I would say if you think of AVSIM like the house, and think of how your post may affect other people (ie personal attacks, defaming, etc) and act accordingly, you should be fine. I am not an owner of the house, but I am its protector because I remember when I was new to this community and how embracing and supportive everyone was when I had those newbie questions etc etc. I wish for that same positive energy for all of our members and guests alike. :)(halo off)

So, here is a good example of how easy it is to misunderstand the written word. I was niether angry or emotional. Interesting that you took my post that way. Mitch is afraid that anything he writes might be used against him. I think we should all think twice before posting.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hello Bobby,As to the chance that your post...anybody's post will now see the new deal....the Moderator's 100 pound hammer....has been shown myself.At 7:50, I wrote a post to the Flight forum that stated that I found Flight to be totally boring after having flown it since it became available for download. I said in that post that I had decided for myself to delete the program, all supportive programs it loads upon install, and that I am grateful to go back to FSX. I also used a little humor that I could only buzz sugarcane fields so much, and wished all others that would continue to do so...to enjoy themselves.I did not flame anyone,I did not slander anyone,I did not insult anyone,I did not personally attack anyone,I DID give my opinion that I found Flight to be most boring. I visited my post after having just posted it to make sure spelling content was OK. I saw a moderator (Geofa) was reading my post. I then went to view the FSX and FS9 forum. I then went back to add another thought....ONLY TO FIND THAT MY ENTIRE POST HAD BEEN DELETED. It pretty well shows me that unless you rave and give flatter to Flight, your post has about a snow ball's chance in h*** of not being shown the door, or the Moderator 100 Pound Hammer. Very sad, that it has come to this. I most likely will now lurk on AVSIM, but probably after this demonstration, will no longer post within any forum. Why bother? At the whim of a moderator, it can be shown the door, without any 'attack/slander/flame content. Merely because the moderator did not agree with you, or your opinion/ non-offensive content. This very post might be liable to the 'hammer'. I wonder if you will have time to read it, lol.Cheers,The now 'silent' Mitch, FSX forum lurker. (smile).

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Sesquashtoo

Very sorry Mitch. I have always gotten much from your thoughts. Not having seen the post in question, I can't judge if it was bad enough or not. It is difficult for me to get worked up over a computer game. If other folks wish to do so, that's fine.

Thank you not only for your support but also for sharing the same concept of AVSIM as a house for all of us to gather. I couldn't have said it better myself.

No Problem Mate. It is a great job you guys do here.Cheers

Mitch,I feel this too. I will leave the Flight forum alone, because there are many in there, some of whose posts I have respected for years, who are acting very precious and very parochial about directing opinion and speech regarding what stands clearly as an abomination to me. Since opinions are easy, there is no win.MS knew that Flight would have this effect and Tom (and others) duly warned us. It is evident that only "cooing" posts are welcome during Flight's infancy and there is not much we can do about it. Things change and that's the real message here.My personal lesson is acute because I remember reflecting on how FS2004 fans seemed like Luddites to me be back in 2006-2008. Now I am the disenfranchised and I suppose I am getting my own just desserts.In any case, the Flight forum, at the moment, is no place to voice the plainly obvious shortfall that Flight represents. The Flight forum is an incubator to convince the new comer that Flight is "normal."As we are all guests here, if the proprietor puts the fans in charge, what can we do about it? Just stew and evolve. I still like AVSIM as a flight sim hangout and, just as in real life, sometimes change passes me by and I find that there are some parts of town that I am not really welcome in (at this age, the teenage hangouts have no appeal, etc.).So, alienation and evolution are the only answers.I gave Flight a foray and it is such a departure for the worse, which will be evident to everyone with any history with flightsim, that there is nothing left to do. Just like the FS2004 folks that I didn't understand, I now know what it is to be left behind. It is humbling, but not so much that I won't continue to call it like I see it.I thought that MSFS died for me in Jan 2009, but it really did so in March 2012.That's the way she goes...

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by ahuimanu

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hello Bobby,As to the chance that your post...anybody's post will now see the new deal....the Moderator's 100 pound hammer....has been shown myself.At 7:50, I wrote a post to the Flight forum that stated that I found Flight to be totally boring after having flown it since it became available for download. I said in that post that I had decided for myself to delete the program, all supportive programs it loads upon install, and that I am grateful to go back to FSX. I also used a little humor that I could only buzz sugarcane fields so much, and wished all others that would continue to do so...to enjoy themselves.I did not flame anyone,I did not slander anyone,I did not insult anyone,I did not personally attack anyone,I DID give my opinion that I found Flight to be most boring. I visited my post after having just posted it to make sure spelling content was OK. I saw a moderator (Geofa) was reading my post. I then went to view the FSX and FS9 forum. I then went back to add another thought....ONLY TO FIND THAT MY ENTIRE POST HAD BEEN DELETED. It pretty well shows me that unless you rave and give flatter to Flight, your post has about a snow ball's chance in h*** of not being shown the door, or the Moderator 100 Pound Hammer. Very sad, that it has come to this. I most likely will now lurk on AVSIM, but probably after this demonstration, will no longer post within any forum. Why bother? At the whim of a moderator, it can be shown the door, without any 'attack/slander/flame content. Merely because the moderator did not agree with you, or your opinion/ non-offensive content. This very post might be liable to the 'hammer'. I wonder if you will have time to read it, lol.Cheers,The now 'silent' Mitch, FSX forum lurker. (smile).

Mitch I have been pretty much unflattering to Flight in my comments-guess again...and I find it sad that an old friend would write such.Yes I looked at your post-and then I left starting to pack boxes for my 3000 mile move.Really disappointed...

This is the best thread I have ever known. The thoughts, responses and words carefully structured. Sorry for not being helpful, I was just amazed that people here are taking this issue in well educated manner. This is a lot better than ones in FLIGHT forum.Regards.

Mitch I have been pretty much unflattering to Flight in my comments-guess again...and I find it sad that an old friend would write such.Yes I looked at your post-and then I left starting to pack boxes for my 3000 mile move.Really disappointed...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hello Geofa,First and foremost, I also consider us 'long time' acquaintances and friends of the 'cyber order'. If my mention of your name as the moderator that I happened to view, also viewing my post immediately after having seen in placed into the Flight Forum has upset you, then for that I directly apologize to you. I do note though, Geofa, that you also did not comment that you in fact did...not delete my post and remove it from the Flight Forum. May I ask you then directly? Were you the one to have caused my post to be deleted minutes after I had posted it? If you were not, I would ask that you tell me so, but if you had, I would please ask that you tell me (the use of the term 'guess again' is vague).... why? If another administrator is reading this, and (if it was not you, Geofa) seeing that I am then asking the wrong person, I encourage that administrator to make yourself known, and let me know in this thread your reason(s) for totally deleting my opinion and comments on Flight which I posted at 19:10 hours on March 2nd, which by the way, was NOT directed at any other contributor or person's known. It was directed on the subject of Flight, the game.So I ask again in closing, if you did not delete my post that I reference, please let me know, here within this thread, so I might then direct my request for a reason to the one that did. I really want to try and understand what has so changed below the surface with moderation at AVSIM. But changed, it has.....enough for me to even feel compelled to talk about the 'white elephant sitting in the living room'..........After packing, have a safe and uneventful move Geofa. All the best to you, friend! :) Michigan will miss your loss! If you feel so inclined, may I ask where you are heading for?Mitch

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Sesquashtoo

I did not delete your post-but many have needed to be. When FSX came out there was similar mayhem- how silly in retrospect. In those days there was only one option-banning.

Mitch,It is me you are looking for. I deleted your post. The Flight Forum is intended to be a safe forum for those choosing that platform to expand their flight hobby in exactly the same way the FSX forum is intended to be a safe forum for FSX users. Your post was not helpful whatsoever in the pursuit of that principle. Instead it simply added considerable fuel to the fire of controversy, after all, you are a good writer when you are fired up and you can land some pretty hard punches.I will not discuss the details of the content or the relative merits of whether you expressed your thoughts that time closer to the reasoned, or to the emotional argumentative end of the spectrum, for that is a matter of opinion that might vary among its readers. My best judgment was that it was out of place and out of sorts for what it said and how you said it. It is extremely hard to moderate when friends like yourself become the moderated, but I can not always protect those I like from themselves.Mitch, your dispute is with me, not AVSIM, not Geofa, no one else. I know you disagree with my decision just as strongly as I disagree with you forcing me to make it. Be that as it may, I was not acting in my personal regard whatsoever but trying to help make some kind of dialing down of the rhetoric so that some kind of peace and sanity could be restored, however briefly. Although I am very sorry to hurt a friend, and I really am feeling badly, I do not apologize for doing what I felt then, and still feel now as being what I had to do.This is not a matter I am willing to discuss further, for to do so is chasing the wind. I remain respectful of you and your opinions and enjoy reading them when they are in the right place at the right time. Yesterday what you wrote, in my opinion at the time I read it, was neither. I hope that when the dust settles you will grant me the grace to be able to do the best job I can, imperfect as I am. That is the last I will speak on this matter. Peace.Kind regards,

I'm one of those deciding whether to "choose" Flight or FSX as the next platform on my next computer. In order to make an informed decision, I would hope to find both positive and negative opinions about each to read. Unfortunately, now that it appears that only positive comments about Flight are allowed, it makes it difficult for me to use avsim as a tool to make that decision, which keeps me reluctant to choose the new product if I don't know what the cons are since I don't want to be unpleasantly surprised after spending money, and most likely cause me to seek other forums to read. So if the Flight forum is a place for those who have already chosen Flight, then where should those that are in the process of choosing go?I understand that this really is not a free speech matter since avsim is a business and not a government, but the decision to allow or not allow anything does not come free either. If avsim makes decisions that cause people to go elsewhere to seek information then, that will eventually have longer consequences in avsims' ability to generate advertising revenue.As for the forum being a "safe" place for a discussion, I would hope that the mods meant that in the vein that safe means that people are not hurling personal insults at each other. Instead of declaring a post unsafe because it was forcefully reasoned and convincing in one direction of opinion or another.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by KevinAu

I'm one of those deciding whether to "choose" Flight or FSX as the next platform on my next computer.

Well, FLIGHT is a game, there´s nothing more to say. As long as MS doesn´t come up with things like ATC, Ai traffic and so on, it will nevrr be a subtitude for FSX. So get the fastest system you can get and have fun with FSX and its huge 3rd. party market!