Carenado F33A Bonanza Roll

[Tom Wright 438]

Hi,Does anyone who has this aircraft find that when you power back for the cruise the aircraft continually wants to roll to the right? It's weird because if it was the modelling of prop torque then surely it would be worse with the engine at high power, rather than get worse when you power back?!Just wondering!Thanks!

[wb5okj 26]

When you are applying power, the plane pulls to the left, so one must put right rudder in to counteract the torque and P factor, in the case of X-Plane 10 one must counteract this with right aileron trim rather than rudder input. this makes the plane actually pull to the right, and the right amount of right trim will cause the plane to go straight. So naturally if you pull the power off the plane will start drifting or rolling to the right, because of the right trim that has been applied. To keep balance one has to either trim some left or increase the power again.I wish that we could use only rudder trim to compensate for the torque and P factor. But currently we have to get along with what we have. :(

[Tom Wright 438]

I'm not putting any trim in at all (other than pitch trim). Everything's neutral. It still rolls quite quickly to the right when I power back for the cruise.

[Geofa 108]

Mine wants to roll right in level flight and needs almost complete aileron trim to correct.

[wb5okj 26]

Mine rolls right too. I just trim it out, and of course every change in power settings require a re trim, but that is required in real also. I don't like the rolling to the right but there you go.

[ohsirus 241]

Mine wants to roll right in level flight and needs almost complete aileron trim to correct.

Same Here

[gizmosellsbunnys 106]

As others have said use some right rubber and alieon trim.

[jcomm 5,890]

This bank instead of yaw, rather exaggerated and unrealistic effect, is an old bug of xplane's FM, and one I have long compalined about with no success. I would accept some roll due to torque, but where is the yaw on most prop aircraft during full power climb? It is not that much the P-factor, but rather slipstream that causes it, although the ball tends to get pretty much centered on pro aircraft in xplane.Some designers try to play around with engine and fin cant, but then, used on real aircraft, but then when you throttle back what you get is only the effect of that assymetry.At cruise speed/power dynamic pressure should be more than sufficient to nill any torque effects, and on power climbs, or whenever you give throttle more abruptly while level or climbing, yaw, and the need to kick the ball should be there!!!All I see to my dismay is that this is still a problem with xp10... a pitty, given the otherwise great potential....I should sum up other aspects that I would gladly exange for cars on roads or any sort of AI life down there... Weather modelling for instance, such basic aspects as modelling the effects of colder/denser air in terms of pressure surfaces, better wind/gust/turbulence models, a good thermal model as well as a more complete orographic lift model, etc....Well....

[GoranM 3,762]

Do you have XP10 and the Carenado F33 for it?Geof has it, as well as the real aircraft and he can't stop flying it because it's so realistic.Just curious as to what you base your opinion on.

[jcomm 5,890]

Yes, I did buy the Carenado F33, and use it with the xplane demo.I base my comments on basic aerodynamics, being a glider pilot since 1980, but having flown with fellow GA pilots on many prop aircraft, jets, and even T-37 while on duty at the Portuguese Airforce (as a passenger!!!!!).I know this forums for quite a long while, and xplane from when it costed about $700 as far back as 1994/5 if my memory doesn't faill, find Austin's dedication to his project unique, but also find too many basic aspects of the simulation platform requiring attention, long ago...Sorry, it's my oppinion, of course, but, even if you do not own a PPL, you can allways drive to the nearby aerodrome and talk to RL pilots. Ask them how they sense their prop aircraft under various configurations, regimes, etc...Come on, that "ball" thing is sooooooooooo irrealistic, that roll instead of yaw moment so unrealistic...BTW: Having flown the real AS-K21 for real, pretty much - logged many of my "modern" flying time on that model - and using xplane's default AS-K21 also gives me authority to comment on it's model, i believe, and, being a glider, no torque or whatsoever "complex" effects having to be taken into consideration, excuse me, but, just like Larry wrote, having a sophisticated FM platform as a basis a simulator shoul at least put out some credible behaviour for such an airplane...Well... anyway, I do keep an eye on xp10, just in case things change and focus of attention moves from AI and pretty clouds to other much more important - IMHO - features for a Flight Simulator...P.S.: I allways recommend this great link to people using simulatros but never having flown for real - which generally happens to be a lot easier than most simulator/hardware used for control replicate. I also recommend it to pilots who never relly had the chance to look with more detail at basic aerodynamic/physics/engine/etc... aspects of flight...The site is: SEE HOW IT FLIES

Do you have XP10 and the Carenado F33 for it?Geof has it, as well as the real aircraft and he can't stop flying it because it's so realistic.Just curious as to what you base your opinion on.

[GoranM 3,762]

Instead of going on with another drawn out post, I'll just say your entire post is wrong. (Sorry)In fact, I know why the F33 rolls so much in X Plane and it's a 5 minute fix. Also, it is not an x plane problem.It's a combination of 3 different things all related to the flight model. I had the same problem with another aircraft and fixed it.

[jcomm 5,890]

Well, that's great! Forward it do xplane devlp, and to the Carenado team as well!!!Would really like to find your description here at the forum. We could all give it a try, and we could all also give it a check, because I really would be happy to find out that after all it is not some tweaking required because the FM is not up to the level of doing things as it should... (sorry) ... And, of course, the same applies to most MSFS aspects... just before you start thinking I am an MSFS blind fanatic (although I am turning, I must confess... into a FLIGHT addict.....)

Instead of going on with another drawn out post, I'll just say your entire post is wrong. (Sorry)In fact, I know why the F33 rolls so much in X Plane and it's a 5 minute fix. Also, it is not an x plane problem.It's a combination of 3 different things all related to the flight model. I had the same problem with another aircraft and fixed it.

[GoranM 3,762]

Not yet. It has to be thoroughly tested to make sure it does work.And I hope you also realize that changing anything in the original package for any add on voids all support for that product.

[jcomm 5,890]

Anyway, Goran, I really respect the work of users like you... I was once an avid MSFS tweaker... Oh, how many many hours I spent trying to adapt the (not so limited as in xplane) turbine engine model in fs9, fsx.... Well - I look forward for your findings!Thanks!P.S.: I don't use xplane to more extent than the demo. The last full version I bought was version 7...

[LAdamson 240]

Do you have XP10 and the Carenado F33 for it?Geof has it, as well as the real aircraft and he can't stop flying it because it's so realistic.Just curious as to what you base your opinion on.

Do note................that he's also mentioned a few problems....It just turns out, that the overall stability & sense of "feel" is much better than a lot of X-Planes.