Simmers are not part of the project because far too many of us behaved like childish brats! (and the ones who did not are likely to gravitate to the stability of this forum or be under NDA!) The honest fact is that if I was MS and saw the destructive backlash and outright forum thread sabotage that was and still is being unleashed across the web, I would be feeling quite uncharitable at the moment. Beyond that, MS has traditionally been secretive. And beyond even that, an interview meant to engage the community a bit more is being interpreted any old way. The Facebook page has been effectively hijacked by a vocal and bitter minority.............MS is not talking to us? I would barely be talking to us!!!

This is an interesting reversal of perspective. Usually, in a traditional market economy, are customers that reward or punish a company, by the classical "vote with the wallet".In your vision instead it's the contrary. It's the company (MS), that punish the potential customers because they dared to critique the new product. And actually this type of reasoning do appear also in the Howard interview.I have an idea of what will happen as the net result of this very original attitude ... :-)A.

Can you imagine someone trying to fly 800 miles, by hand, in real time, in a Maule, or Beaver, or whatever else we get?

I can confirm that sucks: http://forum.avsim.n...the-boundaries/I will not be doing that again without an autopilot.

I stopped "playing" Flight right after the now-famous interview, even though Flight's graphics, scenery, and the RV6 were great. However, I never really enjoyed the little VFR flights, as I much prefer long-distance IFR flying. The news that MS was going to shun simmers by not providing world scenery, AP, jets, and ATC has turned me off big time; I had previously decided that I would purchase all DLCs (except panel-less aircraft) in order to help fund progess to a true simulation environment. I have returned to FSX Gold big time and I am enjoying it again. I will soon uninstall Flight, even though I have purchased 2 DLCs.I doubt that Flight will survive the year.Frans Kes

This is an interesting reversal of perspective. Usually, in a traditional market economy, are customers that reward or punish a company, by the classical "vote with the wallet".In your vision instead it's the contrary. It's the company (MS), that punish the potential customers because they dared to critique the new product. And actually this type of reasoning do appear also in the Howard interview.I have an idea of what will happen as the net result of this very original attitude ... :-)A.

+1 or a heck of a lot more than that if I could. I don't know why everyone seems to think that the "vocal minority" or so in the wrong. Not all of us are using profanity but rather are very passionate about Flights short comings. But since I'm in "minority" and didn't want to get flamed I just kept my mouth shut. I hardly think myself as acting like a brat HiFlyer.

I like Flight a lot. I started with FS back in 1983 and have enjoyed most of the flight sims that have been released since. Flight holds great potential and has the greatest immersive experience I've had yet in terms of flight dynamics, visual and aural experience and plain just feeling like I'm in the air. The lighting is a work of art in itself and seeing how the setting sun sparkles across the windscreen and throws shadows around the aircraft is beautiful. I truly enjoyed being able to beta test this product. But...what has been said before is true. It's a world empty of any life and after flying FSX, it just feels dead and I'm beginning to grow bored with having such a limited area to fly. Like many, I like flying over familiar areas as well. I haven't flown Flight in a week or so and have enjoyed a "mundane" flight in one of many aircraft I have for FSX. Seeing familiar roads and coastlines with traffic moving along the ground and sky plus having a real world weather makes a full experience so much more satisfying for me. I fear that my time with Flight will grow shorter and shorter because of that, which is frustrating. I love what Flight brings to the experience, but without some actual advancement to the program, I probably won't be going back to it much at all. Maybe if I was just picking up and experiencing the magic of a flight simulator now, it would be an entirely different story, but unfortunately, that's not the case. MS has the power to make something very spectacular here, but I'm not sure that's something they're even interested in doing.

Someone asked how people could be getting bored with Flight when it's the same things as FSX: making flights from one place to another. That's true, but in FSX, you weren't limited to making your flights using slow aircraft in a tiny part of the world. If you got tired of Hawaii, you could visit the strip in Las Vegas, or see the Sphinx in Cairo. They had even teased us with space, although we couldn't control the aircraft much above 100,000 feet.

This is so true. Options are a "good thing". I wish MS would offer an FSX upgrade (mostly graphics, multi-core support, better VC support) and I'll pay 80 for it. MS and players then could have their cake and eat it too- offer Flight and an FSX upgrade.

This is an interesting reversal of perspective. Usually, in a traditional market economy, are customers that reward or punish a company, by the classical "vote with the wallet".In your vision instead it's the contrary. It's the company (MS), that punish the potential customers because they dared to critique the new product. And actually this type of reasoning do appear also in the Howard interview.I have an idea of what will happen as the net result of this very original attitude ... :-)A.

Not at all. I don't think anyone, I and Microsoft included cares one iota if certain people don't buy their product. In fact no matter what the product, there are those who will not like it. That is fair, and excepted behavior in a market economy. Fair debate and consumer critique of a product are also considered fair. The objection was not to balanced critiques. It was to destructive and childish rants that stretched the boundary of acceptable behavior in any venue.Nobody, including Microsoft is obliged to be bombarded repeatedly by intrusive negativity, and in fact, the mods here said repeatedly: make your point and move on. Instead what was happening was that people were essentially trolling threads to the point that the forum was closed, and many other sites quarantined the subject to a single thread that was watched as warily as explosive toxic waste.Lets do an experiment. Lets take such innocent "critiques" to any other product forum and replace the word "Flight" with XP10, FSDT, PMDG or whatever product that forum supports, then come back and tell us what the reaction was. Anyone Approached in such a way is going to react negatively, and has a perfect right to do so. If this market segment is destructive, rude, unresponsive and any number of other adjectives, MS also has a perfect right (and obligation to their shareholders) to seek greener pastures.It does not have an obligation to listen to or accede any small segments demands, most especially when far more productive markets may be available.I actually hope they do listen. Many points have been raised that they may indeed feel a need to address, whether I personally see the urgency or not. But I don't think I have a right to expect them too; especially when so many have poisoned the well by behaving as if they don't know how to talk to people.

One thing I have noticed in reading the various Flight related forums is that some people just don't get it. I do not let that interfere with my enjoyment of Flight.

Totally agree, and they should just stick with FS9, FSX or XPlane, whatever they prefer. I am really enjoying Flight, and can't wait for Alaska!

Not at all. I don't think anyone, I and Microsoft included cares one iota if certain people don't buy their product.

I don't know you, but surely MS cares (or should) more than one iota if certain people don't buy their product. In particular if they are old and loyal customers from years, and many of them contributed to create a rich "ecosystem".This is exactly the (in my opinion wrong) assumption made by Howard with the entire Flight operation. Create anger and delusion among people that, in many cases, were following the franchise from decades, to try hunting hypothetical "millions" of new users that probably are more interested in buying the new sofa for their sims than choosing between a Maule or a Boeing.

Lets do an experiment. Lets take such innocent "critiques" to any other product forum and replace the word "Flight" with XP10, FSDT, PMDG or whatever product that forum supports, then come back and tell us what the reaction was.

Simply done. Since recently I started to also follow the X-Plane forum here on Avsim. You also know, because we wrote toghether in some threads. I don't know the history of that forum, but as you can notice there are several users that constantly attack quite violently Austin Meyer and the product. And I don't see particular strong reactions. Do you?A.

I don't know you, but surely MS cares (or should) more than one iota if certain people don't buy their product. In particular if they are old and loyal customers from years, and many of them contributed to create a rich "ecosystem".This is exactly the (in my opinion wrong) assumption made by Howard with the entire Flight operation. Create anger and delusion among people that, in many cases, were following the franchise from decades, to try hunting hypothetical "millions" of new users that probably are more interested in buying the new sofa for their sims than choosing between a Maule or a Boeing.

You missed the second part my statement. MS spoke of wanting to reach out to the community, but that in no way puts the community in the drivers seat. Being a purchaser of a previous product does not in any way shape or form allow me to dictate the particulars of following products. My input may be solicited; I may even offer friendly and respectful advice unsolicited if I think I may see things from another perspective that may be useful, but the companies decision ultimately is going to be what they and they alone decide to be in their financial best interests. (Whether I agree or not)In this instance, I believe the community actually would have had a good chance to influence things, and may still have some leverage, despite the behavior of some segments.

Simply done. Since recently I started to also follow the X-Plane forum here on Avsim. You also know, because we wrote toghether in some threads. I don't know the history of that forum, but as you can notice there are several users that constantly attack quite violently Austin Meyer and the product. And I don't see particular strong reactions. Do you?A.

I would have to see an example, as I don't particularly recall anything that rose to that description. My general feeling is that the mods do make a good faith effort to correct overreactions (even their own) in any direction.

Never-mind. Double post. :LMAO:

I would have to see an example, as I don't particularly recall anything that rose to that description. My general feeling is that the mods do make a good faith effort to correct overreactions (even their own) in any direction.

There were good examples in the recent thread about the joke message of Meyer about Flight. I am not able to find the thread there anymore, maybe has been deleted? :Thinking:A.

There were good examples in the recent thread about the joke message of Meyer about Flight. I am not able to find the thread there anymore, maybe has been deleted? :Thinking:A.

No idea. But if it has, wouldnt that tend to negate the case that there were no strong reactions to such behavior if it went over the line in any forum (and not just here?) :Thinking:Truth and perception........

No idea. But if it has, wouldnt that tend to negate the case that there were no strong reactions to such behavior if it went over the line in any forum (and not just here?) :Thinking:Truth and perception........

Sincerely I still don't know very well the X-Plane forum, considering that I started to participate there only recently. Do they use to delete entire threads instead than locking them?A.

Sincerely I still don't know very well the X-Plane forum, considering that I started to participate there only recently. Do they use to delete entire threads instead than locking them?A.

No idea, I have only been here a month! (Intermittant mega lurker)I do know even in that short time however that the mods here, with no internal financial stake in any one product, tend to take a much more even stand against obviously partisan shenanigans that get out of hand than most.Whether that includes deleting threads is unknown to me, too.