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Marc_H

will the 777 support RF-legs?

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Hi PMDG,

 

can you tell if the upcoming 777 supports RF-Legs?

I hope it will because you can't model tens of thousands of new procedures with this leg type.


Regards Marc

[EUR VOR RDL 205 DME 15.7]

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There is a standard how procedures like approches, SIDs, STARs... are encoded in the NavDatabase. This standard is commonly called ARINC424 that describes a so called Path/Terminator-concept (e.g. fly path XXX° until XXXD is reached). That's the way all modern airliner fly today.

 

PMDG told me years ago they plan to implement an version of the RF function (Radius to Fix). So you could program the AP shall fly a given radius from an artificial fix. Not the very unsatisfying workaround to program every 10° a fix (like for an arc, there is a arc function as well specified in ARINC424).

 

I saw a lot draft versions for new approach procedures utilizing the RF-leg type.

I attach a draft version of a new approach procedure as sample:


Regards Marc

[EUR VOR RDL 205 DME 15.7]

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....It's PMDG soooo.... Yes. :P

I wouldn't be so sure, they haven't included it in the NGX (well. they said they would give it a look)

The best we can do is hope.

 

I wonder, does RF get a lot of use in real life?

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It's only useful if they get real Navdata to go with it. Until PMDG makes a deal with Jeppesen, Lufthansa or such, it wouldn't make a difference if they supported it.


Alexis Mefano

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Alec,

 

Of course it would be useful! As EAG are going to start supporting it.

 

Not to mention I can create a PMDG SID / STAR / IAP file in very quick order including ones with RF legs. But not being able to code an RF lef into PMDG navigation base format is a pain in the behind because then you have to start making lots of waypoints to trick the FMS to do what you want it to do.

 

If it would accept the leg then it is a simpe matter of telling it to do an RF leg and entering the RF center.

 

FYI as of yet DLH don't do any RF legs, however their sister company Lufthansa Systems Flight Nav, does indeed manage the navigation database for airlines such as WestJet who of course do use RNP approaches with RF legs.

 

As for if it gets used alot in real life.. Depends on what region we are talking. WestJet use it all the time. Saves them a ton of money too!

 

Would be nice if PMDG would include an option to get wind uplinks, maybe using something like ASE or even from the NOAA dataset. It's a pain in the rear to enter them in manually for a long crossing.. and is becoming very unrealistic in doing so.

 

Could not tell you the last time I had to plug the winds in by hand. Normally its MENU, AOC Functions, WIND REQUEST............. ACARS UPLINK, ENTER WINDS execute :)

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It would have been nice if the NGX supported it so we could properly fly RNP procedures with fixed radius turns.


i7-13700KF, 32gb DDR4 3200,  RTX 4080, Win 11, MSFS

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It's only useful if they get real Navdata to go with it. Until PMDG makes a deal with Jeppesen, Lufthansa or such, it wouldn't make a difference if they supported it.

 

Lufthansa??? What??

 

PMDG uses Navigraph for it's FMC data.

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I never heard of this EAG, is that a company that sells Navdata?


Alexis Mefano

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Oh I didn't know they were a group named EAG. I have their database, very good, If they start making available AIRAC with RF-LEGS, that would be a great incentive for all the developers to upgrade their products to this higher level of simulation.


Alexis Mefano

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Lufthansa??? What??

 

He means Lufthansa Systems' product known as Lido: http://www.lhsystems.com/solutions/airline-solutions/airline-operations-solutions/index.htm

 

PMDG need to implement an ARINC 424-like database, even without support for RF-legs. There is more to the ARINC 424 than just RF legs, and this includes things like airport transition altitude/level, database holding patterns, geometric descent angles for NPAs and more. While the first two are things we can put up with, coded descent angles for NPAs is something that is really needed to do VNAV and IAN approaches properly. Without this, we are forever hacking the level constraints and putting in extra fixes to approximate the correct angle.

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Alec,

 

Of course it would be useful! As EAG are going to start supporting it.

 

Where is it stated that Navigraph is going to have the data?


Ryan Maziarz
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