Upcoming DC-6

[LeeL 272]

It depends on how the cockpit has been modified. Like the 727 used to require 3 and now most have been reconfigured for 2 pilots. An aircraft with a required flight engineer station now adays is like a finacial ball and chain tied around the tail.

 

I for one am looking more foreward to the DC6 than anything right now.

 

This is something that I've always wondered. How easy is it to make a cockpit like a 727 a two man cockpit? Must be cheaper than a flight engineer anyway.

 

And the Russian planes that are still being used with navigators I always thought they could be replaced with a gps, no need to put it in the panel you can put it on top

 

Lee

[WestAir 2,522]

Remember, GPS is still owned and operated by the US government with a "we can shut it down or sabatoge it at any point" disclaimer. A lot of countries, especially Russia and the EU, are trying to get away from our US GPS Satellites because of their reluctance to trust us. I've heard the EU is trying to construct their own network of satellites - Not sure about Russia, but it could potentially explain their reluctance to care about GPS as much as we do. [i think they care more about GLONASS but if I recall it's not as reliable]

[kevinh 409]

It depends on how the cockpit has been modified. Like the 727 used to require 3 and now most have been reconfigured for 2 pilots. An aircraft with a required flight engineer station now adays is like a finacial ball and chain tied around the tail.

 

I for one am looking more foreward to the DC6 than anything right now.

Converting a 727 to two crew operation is no simple matter, and would involve recertification. I haven't head of any being converted to two crew, let alone most of them. It would take an awful lot of F/E's salaries to pay for the engineering work required to automate his crew function.

 

A flight engineer in the crew on a remote cargo operation is worth his weight in gold.

 

I'm puzzled why people are wondering how PMDG will cope with modelling a 3 crew plane. It's not as if it hasn't been done before. The RFP 747 had a complex F/E station for example, and the A2A B377 is a directly comparable complex add-on.

[realpilotsimpilot 11]

Converting a 727 to two crew operation is no simple matter, and would involve recertification. I haven't head of any being converted to two crew, let alone most of them. It would take an awful lot of F/E's salaries to pay for the engineering work required to automate his crew function.

 

I'm puzzled why people are wondering how PMDG will cope with modelling a 3 crew plane. It's not as if it hasn't been done before. The RFP 747 had a complex F/E station for example, and the A2A B377 is a directly comparable complex add-on.

 

Well, for instance, Trump's plane is a 727, I'm curious how that's been retrofitted for 2 person crew, for example, if it has. As for sims with three persons, I think they've made a point about saying they aren't going to do an A2A style simulation. Maybe something like FSLabs virtual F/E for the concorde. I'm looking forward to the plane either way, but I find some of the implementation questions interesting. And, tying back to the OP, the video the guy talks about the challenges with an old plane with more than the average number of engine issues. (Which we know won't be as big an issue since there isn't a failure model, but they have said engine management will be a skill you will need to develop.) All very fascinating, as sim musings go.

[LeeL 272]

maybe an fs3crew????? :Praying:

 

thats what im hoping for

[kevinh 409]

Well, for instance, Trump's plane is a 727, I'm curious how that's been retrofitted for 2 person crew, for example, if it has. As for sims with three persons, I think they've made a point about saying they aren't going to do an A2A style simulation. Maybe something like FSLabs virtual F/E for the concorde. I'm looking forward to the plane either way, but I find some of the implementation questions interesting. And, tying back to the OP, the video the guy talks about the challenges with an old plane with more than the average number of engine issues. (Which we know won't be as big an issue since there isn't a failure model, but they have said engine management will be a skill you will need to develop.) All very fascinating, as sim musings go.

Trump's 727 hasn't even been fitted with more efficient engines, though it has winglets, so I doubt they did any flightdeck conversions though no doubt it has modern avionics, not the original 1968 fit! To go two crew you would need to automate much of the F/E station, and find space to relocate the controls and indications on the overhead. He could afford it no doubt, but it's much cheaper to employ a flight engineer who would also be useful when things go wrong in out of the way airports.

 

Back on topic, you can put the A2A B377 F/E in automatic mode and you have a virtual F/E, just like FSLabs Concorde. I don't see a significant difference in philosophy, apart from the enhanced modelling inherent with accu-sim. I think it's a bit unfortuante PMDG chose to develop the DC-6B when Just Flight already had one about to be released. A bit more variety in the prop simulation market would be nice, but that's life I suppose.

[Steven_Caffey 23]

Trump's 727 hasn't even been fitted with more efficient engines, though it has winglets, so I doubt they did any flightdeck conversions though no doubt it has modern avionics, not the original 1968 fit! To go two crew you would need to automate much of the F/E station, and find space to relocate the controls and indications on the overhead. He could afford it no doubt, but it's much cheaper to employ a flight engineer who would also be useful when things go wrong in out of the way airports.

 

Back on topic, you can put the A2A B377 F/E in automatic mode and you have a virtual F/E, just like FSLabs Concorde. I don't see a significant difference in philosophy, apart from the enhanced modelling inherent with accu-sim. I think it's a bit unfortuante PMDG chose to develop the DC-6B when Just Flight already had one about to be released. A bit more variety in the prop simulation market would be nice, but that's life I suppose.

 

Trump actually sold the 727 (VP-BDJ) to a charter company that I believe is based in Malaysia. Shortly after he sold it it came through the airport I used to work at, still in that same paint but with different titles. There was still a Flight Engineer on the plane, so it never got refit for 2 crew ops. I'm not sure that's even possible. Trump since bought Paul Allen's old 757 (N757AF) and fully re-did it, including new engines.

 

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Anyway, what were we talking about again?

[viethson 0]

DC-6: how far? when release? :-)

[Chock 17,769]

Yup, I'm curious as to how far off this baby is too, since it does look very complete on the screenshots we have seen and I'm wondering why it hasn't got a sub forum like the 777 has because of that. I'm actually far more interested in this than the forthcoming Triple Seven to be honest, I'm really looking forward to seeing what PMDG can do with a classic propliner.

 

Al

[LeeL 272]

yeah im eagerly awaiting this too.

 

I think im waiting for the T7 more, but this will really be a fun plane...

 

surely theyre in beta?

 

lee

[Chaos81 110]

I'm wondering why it hasn't got a sub forum like the 777 has because of that.

 

The only reason the 777 has a sub-forum is because of all the topics on it. If there were a ton of DC-6 topics, I'm sure they'd create a sub-forum for it, too.

[Chock 17,769]

I suspect there are a ton of topics because the 777 has a forum.

 

Al

[Chaos81 110]

I suspect there are a ton of topics because the 777 has a forum.

 

Al

 

There were a ton of topics even prior to the sub-forum being opened.

 

 

It felt like the General forum was getting a bit cluttered with all these 777 threads, so this is the place to put 777 related threads from now on.

[viethson 0]

I really don´t expect a definite release date but a little update on the DC-6 would be nice (alpha, beta etc.) :-)

[denver69 0]

Excellent! I love these old airliners. Cant wait.