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A few things I'd like to see

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Hi all

 

After jumpseating many flights on the 777-200, more times than I care to remember, there are a few things I have noticed that I would like to see modelled.

 

1) 'CABIN SECURE' message on the EICAS. I'm sure this could easily be modelled to appear randomly say 5-10 mins after setting flaps before takeoff or completing the after start checklist. This is something that you hardly ever see modelled on add-on aircraft unless you purchase 3rd party software and I really think it should be. It would add much more immersion to the environment and is included in most operaters checklists.

 

2) Leading on from that, the airline I have observed can send an audio signal to the cabin to alert the cabin crew to imminent departure. This is done through central CDU on the communications screen. When pressed, it sends 3 lo-hi chimes. What can be heard in the flight deck is 3 'hashes' through the headset. Again, I believe this would add to the immersion, although I don't know how many other operators use this.

 

3) Another thing that I think would be good, is more option to customise the aircraft in terms of seating configuration. E.g F14 J48 Y120 etc etc. I know the option is already there within the NGX to change from 2-class to 1-class cabin layout, however it never corresponds to the dispatch figures I use for my VA's. I guess this one is more difficult to implement in practise.

 

4) I know you've already said that you will include the electronic checklists, however will these be customisable? Most operator's checklists differ significantly from the Boeing ones and it would be nice, once again to have unique checklists to different airline/aircraft.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer....

 

 

Ross Marsh


Ross Marsh

 

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1) 'CABIN SECURE' message on the EICAS. I'm sure this could easily be modelled to appear randomly say 5-10 mins after setting flaps before takeoff or completing the after start checklist. This is something that you hardly ever see modelled on add-on aircraft unless you purchase 3rd party software and I really think it should be. It would add much more immersion to the environment and is included in most operaters checklists.

 

Never say "easily," unless you actually know how to do it and it's actually easy. Many things you'd think are easy are not. Specifically, is it always 5-10 after setting flaps? What if the apron is right next to the dep end of the runway. Not so long then, so how do I code this?


Kyle Rodgers

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I didn't say it would be easy for me to code it. But I'm sure for the likes of PMDG, who can model a fully functioning heads up display to perfection, can make a message appear after a set amount of time. I'm not a developer, don't get me wrong. But surely it's similar to making a failure message appear at random?

 

It doesn't matter how far the apron (starting point) is from the end of the runway. It still takes a set amount of time for the cabin crew to make the cabin ready for takeoff. If the apron is right next to the departure runway as you suggested, then you'd probably find yourself sat at the end of the runway waiting for the cabin to be secured, until you can go. Just like real life. 5-10 minutes is a ball park figure, but pretty accurate depending on the pax load.


Ross Marsh

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.2GHz

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I didn't say it would be easy for me to code it. But I'm sure for the likes of PMDG, who can model a fully functioning heads up display to perfection, can make a message appear after a set amount of time. I'm not a developer, don't get me wrong. But surely it's similar to making a failure message appear at random?

 

It doesn't matter how far the apron (starting point) is from the end of the runway. It still takes a set amount of time for the cabin crew to make the cabin ready for takeoff. If the apron is right next to the departure runway as you suggested, then you'd probably find yourself sat at the end of the runway waiting for the cabin to be secured, until you can go. Just like real life. 5-10 minutes is a ball park figure, but pretty accurate depending on the pax load.

 

I like your blue font

 

 

I honestly think you have raised some good points here, lets see if we wake up the staff to see what they say


Alex Ridge

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I know that ding you're talking about prior take-off and on approach, would be cool but not a massively needed feature seen our pax can respawn :LMAO:

 

I keep going to add little topics to add things but I have to remember they're in the NGX so they'll be in the 777. I don't fly the NGX as I just bought it out of support so I have to remind myself. My favourite thing about the ND on the NGX has to be the TERR Radar, so useful! The ground looks higher than it actually is on MSFS..

 

I caannn't waaaiitttt :)


Boeing777_Banner_Betateam.jpg
 

- Luke Pabari

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I am Cabin Crew myself, so a little explanation might be in order.

If we have the time, we take time to do our area checks in the cabin, after which the Cabin Secure call goes to the boys up front. When we don't have time (5 minutes taxi is amazingly short) and we need to do our safety demo and area checks, you'd be amazed how fast those checks can be done, providing you have an experienced crew. Mind you, we never pass out on safety.

What I'm trying to say is, the time it takes us to do the checks varies wildly and is not a set time.

Also, there's an easy way to substitute that "departure is imminent"-message in any airliner: just cycle the Non-Smoking sign.


Name available upon request


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4) I know you've already said that you will include the electronic checklists, however will these be customisable? Most operator's checklists differ significantly from the Boeing ones and it would be nice, once again to have unique checklists to different airline/aircraft.

 

does RL electronic checkilst respond to switches positions? If that is true your request would be nearly impossible to make, maybe some presets, but fully customizable is very tricky to make I think.


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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Hi Thomas

 

Thanks for the reply. In my experience it doesn't matter how good your cabin crew are, if you have a full flight and the pax aren't playing ball, coupled with a short taxy, then you could quite easily find yourself waiting at the departure end of the runway. Yes you're right, the time to secure does vary, which is why I said something like 5-10 mins, which (in my experience) is pretty much spot on!

 

Anyway, I don't want the original point to get lost so that the PMDG team miss it. I don't want a cabin simulator, if I did I would go out and buy FSpax - I too get enough of that at work. All I would like to see is the bare minimum of cabin/flight deck interaction which really does have a big impact on the operation of a flight. As I said, 'CABIN SECURE' features on all checklists that I use for my VAs and really is quite a neat thing to have it appear on the EICAS of the 777 and 747.

 

The signal to the cabin crew for imminent departure really is just a nicety that I could live without. But then so are many of the other things that PMDG model, such as moving RT / Intercom rocker switches. You can switch them in the NGX as much as you like, it doesn't actually do anything, so whats the harm of making another little button press, that is used as part of the departure checks of the aircraft. I can see what you're saying about cycling the 'No Smoking' signs, that is what I use on the NGX, because that is what they use on the NGX in RL. However, on the 777 they have the unique feature of a one button press on the CDU to do the job for them.

 

Lj,

 

Yes, some items on the checklist are automatically ticked off when the corresponding switch / item has been actioned correctly. E.g FLAPS / LANDING GEAR go green when gear has been lowered and flaps have been set for landing. 'CABIN SECURE', for example is manually ticked off by the flight crew.

 

Interesting to note as well, all of the non-normal checklists appear automatically on the lower EICAS when an event happens. The flight crew then troubleshoot the problem by following the checklist, which updates in real time, depending on whether that action has been carried out. For example if you have an A/C pack failure in flight, the non-normal checklist will appear and may say 'Switch off affected pack'. You, the pilot, will switch off the A/C pack which will then make the box go green. Then it may say 'Press A/C reset and wait 2 mins'. You press A/C reset, then a timer automatically starts counting down from 2 mins on the lower EICAS screen above the checklist, etc etc. All really clever stuff. I am only talking from experience of one carrier though, so this may not happen on PMDG's sample aircraft. Would be great to see it modelled though and I'm sure they won't disappoint. :Nerd:


Ross Marsh

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.2GHz

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Actually I think, that given the SDK, it could be rather possible to do customised checklist that react to cockpit settings.

 

I dont think it would be that difficult to make the software read the checklist from external source rather than internal, and once the format is defined, use SDK offsets to check for correct action, if no parameters, make it manual. Of course integrity check must be then done, but maybe just revert to default and write a message if parser returns any error. I could imagine format going like this:

 

checklist("Before Start")
{
 item("Flight Deck Door", "CLOSED");
 item("Passenger Signs", "ON", COMM_FastenBeltsSelector == 1 || COMM_FastenBeltsSelector == 2);
 .
 .
 .
}


--Peter Fabian 
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Well, maybe they can make application that allow us to format our own checklist and then automatically compile it with their own SDK.


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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1 and 2: We aren't going to get into modelling crew interactions, sorry - that's much much better handled by other apps like FS2Crew. Perhaps we could allow FS2Crew to trigger that particular EICAS message or something, I'll ask.

 

3. FSX does not actually know about seats or individual passengers - it only cares about weight. Anything done here would be purely cosmetic. If it starts affecting the empty weight of the plane that's used for performance calculations and stuff then no way, I already know the answer there. We can't account for every possible weight configuration a 777 could have - those are custom programmed in real life for every airline based on the exact options that they order etc. This is part of the reason United is a 777-222, Delta is a 777-232 etc - all those carrier variants with the different options have their data adjusted.

 

4. Highly unlikely the checklists will be customizable - we'll probably use the Boeing checklist because that will be what the manuals that will come with the plane reference. We seem to have given people the impression that we'll model every option that exists or something like that - this is not the case. Even with the number of options that are in the NGX, it;s really only a small fraction of all the ones that are actually in use in the real world.


Ryan Maziarz
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4. Highly unlikely the checklists will be customizable - we'll probably use the Boeing checklist because that will be what the manuals that will come with the plane reference. We seem to have given people the impression that we'll model every option that exists or something like that - this is not the case. Even with the number of options that are in the NGX, it;s really only a small fraction of all the ones that are actually in use in the real world.

 

I know some Airlines edit their checklists but I'd rather have the Standard Boeing ones!


Boeing777_Banner_Betateam.jpg
 

- Luke Pabari

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I don't want to start a new thread so I add here:

 

I would like to see an independent failures-setting/scheduling program. I don't have NGX, but I thing in this product, all failure-setting is performed via CDU.

Thus, If we have a 2D cdu, we can undock it, and move it on another monitor (multi monitor setup)

In case somebode wants a remote CDU, developers are looking at it, check this thread and scroll down for Tabs' anwer.


Sam. 

Waiting for the 64-bit PSION Flightsim for ZX-Spectrum ////

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I think problem3 can be handled without changing aircraft empty weight and performance.

Can't you just allow the users to change the seating configuration only and not other weight affecting options?

If you set the seating configuration change so that it doesn't change the aircraft empty weight, the payload could be calculated by how many passengers are on board.

 

Also, if, and only IF you could do that in the 777 then you could add it as an updated feature to the NG.

KAL has 16 prestige seats on some B738s, and 8 on their 739s

 

Hope you can find a way to make this come true:-)

 

Cheers. from Seoul


Murphy D.G. Jung RK
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Seating....

 

What PMDG should really do is just make a way to edit the DOW and CG directly. As stated the seating layout does not really matter but the DOW and CG do.

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