Is this aircraft out of date?

[conura 45]

Hey guys,

 

I'm working through the angle of attack vids and they speak about the NGX master warning system as if it's very out date, compared to ICAS etc.

 

Why did boeing chose to use such an old system on what is a new jet? (I think the 800/900 is new at least!)

 

I am a little ignorant as my knowledge is lacking :)

 

Thanks

[ccarter06 3]

Because re-typing pilots isn't cheap.

 

It's to keep costs to Boeing's customers down.

 

If they upgraded to more modern EICAS systems, any customer who bought it (and already had earlier models) would be required to create a training program for the pilots and then administer it to those pilots.

[conura 45]

Because re-typing pilots isn't cheap.

 

It's to keep costs to Boeing's customers down.

 

If they upgraded to more modern EICAS systems, any customer who bought it (and already had earlier models) would be required to create a training program for the pilots and then administer it to those pilots.

 

Hi Ccarter,

 

Thanks for your response - that makes sense. Do any Boeing jets use the EICAS system or is that simply the realm of Airbus? Does the EICAS system provide sufficient advantages in situational awareness as to make it a viable update, or is it simply a newer method of showing the same information?

 

(p.s judging from your profile pic, do you fly big jets irl?)

 

Thanks again

[MrKen 3]

744 does I believe

[ccarter06 3]

EICAS comes in many forms. I believe the B757, B767, and B747 (newer 400's and 800's), all have EICAS. It's not just the airbus realm. Canadair, and Embraer have EICAS systems as well. I'm sure many others do too. I just don't want to try to sit down and go through the list.

 

I fly CRJs. I flew 200's for a while, I'm currently on the 700/900. They're smaller than the bigger toys, but they aren't exactly small aircraft in the general sense.

[conura 45]

EICAS comes in many forms. I believe the B757, B767, and B747 (newer 400's and 800's), all have EICAS. It's not just the airbus realm. Canadair, and Embraer have EICAS systems as well. I'm sure many others do too. I just don't want to try to sit down and go through the list.

 

I fly CRJs. I flew 200's for a while, I'm currently on the 700/900. They're smaller than the bigger toys, but they aren't exactly small aircraft in the general sense.

 

Thanks again for your reply,

 

Much bigger than the Piper Warrior and gliders I fly in the real world :) Would love to fly a real jet (as I presume every other simmer without a licence would! )

[PHXMD-11 86]

My feeling is yes the 737NG is out of date. That is if you think that the NG is the only modern aircraft that I know of that doesn't tell you exactly what's going on (you have to look at a light to figure out what's going on). Perhaps the MAX will be more modern.

[conura 45]

Hi Bank, what is the MAX?

[IFR7700 228]

Hi Bank, what is the MAX?

 

http://www.newairplane.com/737/737Max/

[PHXMD-11 86]

Hi Bank, what is the MAX?

 

The 737MAX is the next version of the 737 that will be in the skies around 2015. Sort of like Boeing had the original 737 (100-200), then the classic (300-500), and now the NG (600-900).

[DLH_FRA 0]

Airbus does not use EICAS but uses ECAM.

 

The problem with the aircraft has been touched upon above...

 

Airbus started with a clean sheet of paper, a big part of Airbuses plan was to develope a family of aircraft that would have enough commonality to operate on a single type rating and then with only differences course to the A320 family's larger cousin the A330/340/380.

 

The A318/19/21 is a common type rating, once a pilot is flying the 320 he needs only a very brief course to then fly for example the A330.

 

Once he is type endorsed on both types A320 and A330 the airline still only needs to perform two simulator events per year and alternate them between the A320 and A330 to keep him current on both types.

 

Boeing on the other hand did not start with a fresh sheet of paper for their narrowbody jet but infact many bits of the 737NG can be traced back to the 707.

 

When Airbus was able to provide airlines with the significant cost savings in crew training that I outlined above.. Boeing had to play catch up PDQ and scratch together a program to try and convince the authorities to allow a common type rating between Boeings Aircraft.

 

*Note the above is based upon European Airlines, that do two training events per year for both the Captain and First Officer (who both hold full type ratings)

 

In the US they do their own thing... Having programs like AQP etc and not type rating first officers for domestic only operations.. Some airlines there also stretch out the training to every 9 months instead of 6

 

Anyway you get the idea.

 

Boeing did not build a new airplane with the NG and although it is nice.. It is very dated compared to some types.... Just look at the overhead panel..

[ccarter06 3]

Much bigger than the Piper Warrior and gliders I fly in the real world :) Would love to fly a real jet (as I presume every other simmer without a licence would! )

 

Every pilot looks to any bigger, "nicer" plane and wishes to be in that cockpit instead of the one he/she is in.

 

I'm coming to miss my days in single-engine recips. Enjoy those warriors! I miss them!

[Fabo 213]

Well the NG looks very dated from now... but you need to understand that when NG was entering service, there were huge fleets of classics and even 200s everywhere. At that point, if you told the airlines that as long as they are concerned, this is an all-new airplane, they may as well go to Airbus. Keeping commoniality in narrowbodies was a huge seller back then, even if many new 737 pilots today never set foot in CL cockpit. Boeing had the technology to incorporate EICAS, they had the technology to modernise overhead to 757/767 style with pushbuttons... but that would neccessitate a new typerating for all pilots.

 

Lets hope FAA will be more benevolent this time, and will find some way to incorporate EICAS at least optionally.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

EICAS comes in many forms. I believe the B757, B767, and B747 (newer 400's and 800's), all have EICAS. It's not just the airbus realm. Canadair, and Embraer have EICAS systems as well. I'm sure many others do too. I just don't want to try to sit down and go through the list.

 

I fly CRJs. I flew 200's for a while, I'm currently on the 700/900. They're smaller than the bigger toys, but they aren't exactly small aircraft in the general sense.

skywest?.........ASA?.....

[DLH_FRA 0]

I can't see the MAX offering anything too spectacular...

 

To improve the 737 substantially they need to redesign the wing box....

 

 

They have said they are not going to.... A redesign of the wing box is a major modification.. To the point you may as well start again.

 

The A320NEO will be ready sooner and offer the same or greater savings than the MAX.