How to perform an intersection departure?

[Rey 11]

I'm not sure about runway 27R but it's definitely used (unless a heavy says they require the full length) on runway 9L at KATL. Swing by anytime traffic is headed eastbound and you'll find aircraft taking off 9L at M2 while landing traffic crosses behind from Papa to Lima. Very effective.

[19AB67 16]

Also my Lufthansa pilot from the last flight said they often perform intersection T/O.

This was an Airbus flight - does it depend on aircraft type?

LH's 737s sound more strained than the A32x-s during take off, do they not?

[kjjj11223344 48]

I use a "calculator" one member created with Excel here. And instead of TORA I enter the distance from the taxi point to end of the runway. So instead of TORA of say 10072 feet I enter 8038. Then it calculates my Vspeeds.

How exactly are you able to find out the length of runway remaining from a specific intersection on a runway? Is this included on airport diagrams and I've somehow missed it?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

FYI intersection takeoffs are pretty much banned by a lot of airlines now - there's been some incidents with them in the past where the speed stuff was wrong, issues with runway incursions etc.

 

Just to clarify so people don't go off thinking you'd never get one assigned, or crews have to decline them all the time:

 

Non-standard intersection takeoffs are pretty much prohibited by a lot of airlines now. If it's standard/expected, your dispatcher has calc'd it out and has included it in the paperwork, and it won't be an issue.

 

You'd be hard-pressed to not get 22R at W at EWR, or 22R at F at JFK, among others. Granted, if you don't have calculations for those (which you likely would at those airports, since those are pretty standard for traffic flow), or your calculations show you need the full length, the crew should decline.

 

Ryan's right, though, that you're not really going to see a crew request some random intersection on their own, as most airlines don't allow them to.

[killkenny1 22]

How exactly are you able to find out the length of runway remaining from a specific intersection on a runway? Is this included on airport diagrams and I've somehow missed it?

Yes, such things usually are included in the airport charts.

[Copper. 78]

Anyone know where to find RWY INTX TORA on a jepp chart?

 

Brian Nellis.

[Guest]

Hi guys.

 

Just for some clarification Intersection take-offs are generally encouraged by operators due to efficiency, time and fuel savings but is airport specific. Simply put when the intersection is en-route to the threshold it's usually expected, performance permitting, to be considered. The decision to use is a combination of expediency, efficiency and airmanship. Operators generally prefer to use a higher thrust setting, 24k, 26k etc rather than the extra taxi fuel and time to depart full length.

 

With regards to working out the performance companies will have specific performance charts for every runway and intersection. eg Boeing OBT. These typically provide a list of runways, applicable intersections for departure, flap settings, air conditioning, thrust rating, rwy conditions and any additional notes.

 

There is no setting in the FMC regarding intersection departures for calculating performance. The basic take-off thrust setting is 26k. The reduced thrust take-off may be done using a Fixed Derate, Assume Temperature method or a combination of both and is expected to be used by the crew to maximise efficiency.

 

Sam Breese.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Just for some clarification Intersection take-offs are generally encouraged by operators due to efficiency, time and fuel savings but is airport specific.

 

...which operators?

[Guest]

...which operators?

 

 

Pretty much all of them! I can certainly vouch for the European operators which I've flown for as have all my colleagues.

 

Sam Breese

 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Pretty much all of them! I can certainly vouch for the European operators which I've flown for as have all my colleagues.

 

Hmm...not many operators over here who would let that fly...

The exception (as I mentioned earlier) being standard intersection departures like 22R at W at EWR.

[Guest]

This ruling I'm guessing is very regulatory and company specific. If we started discussing the difference between EASA and FAA we'd be here all day! All I wanted to point out that over here in Europe intersection departures at certain airports is completely routine.

 

We frequently fly into airports where the runway length is under 2000m. If we're at a major airport that has a runway in excess of 4000m and we've got a TOW under let's say 60T we can stick 22k in the box with 45C assumed we won't even use half of it! Of course if the terminal is at the threshold it makes no difference but if you've got to taxi 2km........

 

For my operator and certainly in Europe at airports like STN, PMI and where I've done it frequently LTN, an intersection departure, so long as it's been correctly accounted, authorised and calculated for, is completely routine.

 

Sam Breese.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

This ruling I'm guessing is very regulatory and company specific. If we started discussing the difference between EASA and FAA we'd be here all day! All I wanted to point out that over here in Europe intersection departures at certain airports is completely routine.

 

We frequently fly into airports where the runway length is under 2000m. If we're at a major airport that has a runway in excess of 4000m

 

More company specific than regulatory. Despite my note that few operators allow it, it's on the operator end, and definitely the FAA. They leave a lot up to the operators instead of regulating it.

 

Totally understand encouraging intersection departures on longer runways if you're used to shorter ones. I (intentionally) landed halfway down a (5500 foot) runway once because I needed to exit toward the end. The other pilot in the plane thought it was dangerous until I told him that I was used to landing on the 2000 feet of 0W3. It's all in the framing, I guess.

[Guest]

Sorry Scandinavian13! I accidentally sent my post before finishing it!

 

Completely agree with you, some airports forbid intersection departures for departures and vacating. They certainly shout at you if you try and vacate where you're not meant to!

 

Sam Breese

[Copper. 78]

Pretty common to have a INTX dep here in Australia (regulatory, airport and company regulation/rules/policy permitting). I don't think runway remaining distance is available on the jepp's. TORA is shown on boeing OPT for takeoff from an INTX.

 

Brian Nellis.