Anti Piracy Measure

[MrBenevolent 0]

Let's introduce some reality.

 

The BPI (the UK record industry body) asked TPB in July 2011 to remove infringing material. TPB ignored that.

 

BPI went to court in December 2011 to seek on order requiring ISPs to block access. The ISP's opposed this.

 

In January 2012 he judge initially ruled that TPB “actively encourages it [copyright infringement] it and treat any attempts to prevent it (judicial or otherwise) with contempt.” Note those words because Google, YouTube, AVSIM etc don't actively encourage copyright infringement.

 

Last month the court granted the order.

 

UK ISP's opposed making the order and TPB could have opposed it too but didn't.

 

What more "legal backing" is required?

 

 

Aside from being a horribly subjective and nebulous accusation, is "Actively encouraging copyright infringement" illegal? If I run a website which promotes the overthrow of the UK government (by non-violent means) or saying that everybody should smoke weed, is that illegal?

 

Google and Youtube et al link to content which not only "Actively encourages copyright infringement" but also to sites and locations that actively host material which directly infringes copyright. Surely then, under this same ruling they could (should?) be censored?

 

There are an abundance of websites which index/host material which "encourages" all sorts of other things and provides a wealth of information which certain powerful bodies, both private and governmental, may find distasteful or against their best interests.

 

Again then, what has happened to the TBP makes it easier for any one of these bodies to step up and obtain an order censoring access to this material, whatever it may be.

 

 

As said above, the MegaUpload thing is also a good example - the USA, which has no jurisdiction in either Germany or New Zealand, unilaterally made the call to illegally* destroy a mans business on a whim and by doing so, stuck two fingers up at millions of completely legitimate users of the service by denying them access to their data.

 

 

*It is now looking more and more like the whole process was carried out illegally, even by the authorities own standards and that the case will fall apart because of it.

[Kosta 122]

Let's introduce some reality.

...

 

Google, YouTube, AVSIM etc don't actively encourage copyright infringement.

 

Alright, let's introduce some comparison:

You have to search on TPB to find an illegal material to be able to download it.

In Google, there is the same search involved.

The only obvious difference is that in TPB you can browse torrents.

But the fact stands that in both platforms you have to make an active search, thus both sites for me, do almost the same thing.

Now, should we ban Google, and possibly all other search engines, because they will also find illegal links, and that is never going to change? I think that might be the best idea... (*irony encore)

[WarpD 824]

TPB has my hard work on it. Those of you who think TPB is a good thing probably think it's ok to speed.

 

TPB is more than a search engine. You have to physically add a torrent to the TPB listing system. There's no internet 'spider' crawling around locating all the torrents out there.

 

TPB is located in a country that allows and supports what most of the world considers software piracy. This single issue is the biggest legal hurdle.

 

As people use TPB to take what I created... who stands up for me?

[mgh 89]

Aside from being a horribly subjective and nebulous accusation, is "Actively encouraging copyright infringement" illegal?

 

Yes it is. Aiding and abetting or actively encouraging the commission of an offence is also an offence in practically all jurisdictions.

 

Alright, let's introduce some comparison:

You have to search on TPB to find an illegal material to be able to download it.

In Google, there is the same search involved.

The only obvious difference is that in TPB you can browse torrents.

But the fact stands that in both platforms you have to make an active search, thus both sites for me, do almost the same thing.

Now, should we ban Google, and possibly all other search engines, because they will also find illegal links, and that is never going to change? I think that might be the best idea... (*irony encore)

 

You shoudn't be so selective in your quotes. What I actually posted was:

 

In January 2012 he judge initially ruled that TPB “actively encourages it [copyright infringement] it and treat any attempts to prevent it (judicial or otherwise) with contempt.” Note those words because Google, YouTube, AVSIM etc don't actively encourage copyright infringement.

 

Are you really suggesting that AVSIM “actively encourages copyright infringement and treat any attempts to prevent it (judicial or otherwise) with contempt.” If it did then there would be no difference between AVSIM and TPB!

[MrBenevolent 0]

Yes it is. Aiding and abetting or actively encouraging the commission of an offence is also an offence in practically all jurisdictions.

 

So therefore, unless you too are selectively quoting, you disagree with:

 

Aside from being a horribly subjective and nebulous accusation, is "Actively encouraging copyright infringement" illegal? If I run a website which promotes the overthrow of the UK government (by non-violent means) or saying that everybody should smoke weed, is that illegal?

 

Google and Youtube et al link to content which not only "Actively encourages copyright infringement" but also to sites and locations that actively host material which directly infringes copyright. Surely then, under this same ruling they could (should?) be censored?

 

There are an abundance of websites which index/host material which "encourages" all sorts of other things and provides a wealth of information which certain powerful bodies, both private and governmental, may find distasteful or against their best interests.

 

Again then, what has happened to the TBP makes it easier for any one of these bodies to step up and obtain an order censoring access to this material, whatever it may be.

 

 

?

 

TPB has my hard work on it. Those of you who think TPB is a good thing [/snip]...

 

I don't think anyone on this thread has argued that TPB is a "good thing"?

 

...probably think it's ok to speed.

 

Strawman.

[Kosta 122]

You shoudn't be so selective in your quotes.

 

I am selective, but only due to forum clogging, not meaning. I encourage users to read the whole thread to understand what we are discussing.

 

TPB has my hard work on it.

 

Ed, you, and many others, apparently misunderstood. What me, and some others are implying, is not going pro or contra TPB. It is only an example here. The point being is the kind of action. Hell, I shouldn't even care really not being in the UK (not that I care about TPB otherwise). But for what I care about is what is happening around me - because what starts in one land is usually going to go further.

Those of you who think TPB is a good thing probably think it's ok to speed.

 

I drive 160km/h on the highway all the time, yes. Limit is 130. I don't care really, and it's fun. I don't endanger anyone by my actions.

TPB? Hate it, resent it, and am not using it. I do have Torrent program installed however, due to occasional downloads through torrent from official sources.

What do both have to do with one another?

 

TPB is more than a search engine. You have to physically add a torrent to the TPB listing system. There's no internet 'spider' crawling around locating all the torrents out there.

 

I don't know much about TPB, I only know it from seeing. I guessed that you have to add it. TPB stores the data as I understand it.

But if you type the product's name into google, aren't the searches that pop up often TPB links or other torrent sites? I just tried "PMDG 737 NGX DOWNLOAD", 5th result was TPB. The fact I was pointing at is that if you use a search engine, torrent links will pop up, sooner or later. Sad... but true.

 

As people use TPB to take what I created... who stands up for me?

 

Everyone who is buying your product legally!

 

In the end, I say again: I am not pro TPB (don't want to discuss this point any more actually), I am contra public control. This is what should be left to the people.

 

Are you really suggesting

 

No, did I say that somewhere? There are no links here, they don't pop up if you use the Google site search engine...? People discussing any type of illegal stuff here are gonna get a permanent ban, that is a known fact.

 

I will however bail out of this discussion, as at this point, it's being quite pointless IMO. I will however keep an open eye on it, so keep it civil :Peace:

[ZachLW 37]

1* TPB has my hard work on it. Those of you who think TPB is a good thing probably think it's ok to speed.

2* TPB is located in a country that allows and supports what most of the world considers software piracy. This single issue is the biggest legal hurdle.

3* As people use TPB to take what I created... who stands up for me?

 

1* I haven't witnessed a post yet that said TPB was a "good thing". Please take the posts for what they are, not what makes your argument more dramatic.

 

2* I can agree with that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how else that could be remedied besides censoring the site...

 

3* Your paying customers. Your lawyers. Make great products with good protection, and I'm sure less pirates will steal, and more will purchase.

[WarpD 824]

It's not a 'strawman' argument to use the point of "it's ok to speed." Speeding is against the law. It's commiting a crime. If you believe that's acceptable (for whatever justification you can come up with) then other criminal acts tend to be acceptable. It's just human nature. Laws exist for a single primary purpose... to reduce the chance that someone's exercise of freedom doesn't take out someone else in the process.

 

For those who compare Google to TPB, etc... the only way any file of any type shows up on TPB is by someone intentionally adding it. You can't intentionally add a torrent to Google. There's no interface that supports you saying "here Google, I have this file I want to share with everyone". There is exactly that type of interface on TPB. You have to deliberately and intentionally tell TPB what the file is, where the file is... etc. TPB doesn't create it's own list of anything. It is flat out not a 'search engine'. It just really isn't.

 

Most of the links to illegal software available via Google are extremely dangerous to go to. A great deal of them provide nothing but trojans, viruses and banking fraud (paid access). If TPB is blocked from the internet... Google can't "scan" the links available in TPB and thus their results will no longer offer links to TPB. Google really is just a search engine. No more, no less.

 

Oh and Zach... you're unfortunately completely wrong with regards to your #3 response. It took over a year (which is a really good length for copy protection to survive) to crack the product... but crack it they did... and the sales dropped right after it was available on TPB. As my father told me when I was a small child: "Locks keep honest men honest."

[FLEX1978 373]

Ed, quick question. I help out over on the Airsimmer forum, no one has ever been able to crack that product and believe me they have tried. Why don't other developers use the same type of system? I'm just a tech support guy, have no idea how the protection side of things work except how to help legitimate customers.

 

Regards

[nrunning24 151]

Oh and Zach... you're unfortunately completely wrong with regards to your #3 response. It took over a year (which is a really good length for copy protection to survive) to crack the product... but crack it they did... and the sales dropped right after it was available on TPB. As my father told me when I was a small child: "Locks keep honest men honest."

 

The first thing you learn in Statistics is correlation does not imply causation. I think it is much more likely that after over a year most the people who wanted your product already purchased it, and that's why your sales dropped. I've never been a big believer that most pirates will actually purchase a product they can't find for free.

Also that speeding argument is ridiculous. I'm sure at some point you have broke a law. In no way does that make you just as bad as a murderer. Get off your high horse and understand the discussion. The more sites that the government blocks the closer we become to China or North Korea.

[out 769]

The more sites that the government blocks the closer we become to X or Y.

 

Maybe let's not go geopolitical.

[mgh 89]

People discussing any type of illegal stuff here are gonna get a permanent ban, that is a known fact.

 

I never discussed any such thing. In fact i wrote:

 

Note those words because Google, YouTube, AVSIM etc don't actively encourage copyright infringement.

[TheGrunt 44]

People running services which are promoting purely to piracy should be caught and held responsible and this requires international cooperation between law enforcement officials. Unfortunately not every country has good enough copyright legislation or law enforcement officials have no interest in enforcing them and it is a real problem.

 

Still, that should be the way to go and I consider every step towards censorship measures a bad thing, not good. Ultimately, we may end up in a situation where these censorship measures, which started as a "good" act to prevent obvious criminal activity, are gradually used towards something totally different. I see danger in every step, where government hinders peoples access to information services, although original intent is pretty clear. Where this leads, we will see but I sure don't like this. Censorship is not the right way ever.

 

Edit: I don't live in UK, but similar thing has happened in my country too.

[mgh 89]

Somewhat off-topic, there's a proposal that ,in the UK, ISPs should block access to pornographic sites by default but allow people to "opt-in" by requesting that the block be removed for them.

[Boomer 1,619]

the UK High Court has ordered ISPs to prevent their customers connecting to The Pirate Bay. It's another step in the right direction even though it may not be 100% effective.

 

It is NOT a step in the right direction unless the end result you seek is fascism. Find the TPB and shut it down legally. The UK High Court has a lot of gall.