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Anti Piracy Measure

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It's a tough topic, as this thread demonstrates. While we know piracy and child pornography are wrong, making laws that are too broad or overreaching leads to....

 

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Implementing new laws will NOT stop either piracy or child pornography. Neither will imprisoning or killing all offenders. Doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute them.


Troy W. - "Tango Whiskey"

Fort Worth, TX, USA

Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land, Instrument Rating

 

"In a world full of people, only some want to fly. Isn't that crazy?!" - Seal, Crazy, 1990

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It was deleted because the material under discussion contained copyright violations.

 

Censorship?


Gerry Howard

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Censorship?

 

Sure. We can do anything we like and think it's right (eg. censoring content), if we think it doesn't go with ToS of AVSIM, is violation of rules or mistreatment of general forum posting behaviour. This is a closed community, in which you either take part of or you don't. You don't have to be a part of it. It is your choice.

Much unlike a government, from which you can only run away (eg. to another country), a bit more different than just deleting your account on a forum, wouldn't you agree? Otherwise you must accept their terms.

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Oh and Zach... you're unfortunately completely wrong with regards to your #3 response. It took over a year (which is a really good length for copy protection to survive) to crack the product... but crack it they did... and the sales dropped right after it was available on TPB. As my father told me when I was a small child: "Locks keep honest men honest."

 

Well, that's kind of what I meant, Ed (so we're in "agreeance". In other words, how am I completely wrong?). The longer the protection last, the longer pirates will "resort" to buying...

 

Many have gone to online activation which seems like it'd be a great idea. In any case, I won't pretend to know anything about the developmental side of your or anyone else's product.

 

On a curious note, Ed: Have you guys ever figured how much sales you lose to thieves? I'm sure it'd be a disheartening figure, but I'm curious how much damage a bunch of kids can do to a niche company.

 

EDIT: Sorry Ed, I had you mixed up with a "Phil" somehow.


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TPB is physically located in a country that makes piracy legal... it is unlikely that they'll ever change their laws regarding such things as it's to their personal advantage to be able to steal movies, songs, software, etc as much as they desire without repercussion. Given that... the only way to stop it is to block. It's all that is left.


Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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It's not a 'strawman' argument to use the point of "it's ok to speed." Speeding is against the law. It's commiting a crime. If you believe that's acceptable (for whatever justification you can come up with) then other criminal acts tend to be acceptable. It's just human nature.

 

Well we will have to agree to disagree there!

 

If we use your analogy, TBP is a website that encourages people to speed and advises them where speed cameras and radar posts are - it is not a site that itself "speeds"!

 

Laws exist for a single primary purpose... to reduce the chance that someone's exercise of freedom doesn't take out someone else in the process.

 

Forgive me - I don't mean to be rude, but I think this is rather naive. Of course there are many laws that exist for this purpose and many more that purport to, but a huge number of laws do exactly the opposite - impose on those personal freedoms that have Zero impact on those of others. These are the ones that should be and have been challenged throughout history. Think of laws regarding suffrage, homosexuality, soft drug use, censorship of books and films etc...

 

There are many poor reasons for the continued existence of many outmoded laws and in these cases, the reasons have very little to do with protecting freedom.

 

And yes, that is a broader subject than that which is under discussion here and one that threatens to take us miles off-topic, so I shall park it here!

 

For those who compare Google to TPB, etc... the only way any file of any type shows up on TPB is by someone intentionally adding it. You can't intentionally add a torrent to Google. There's no interface that supports you saying "here Google, I have this file I want to share with everyone". There is exactly that type of interface on TPB. You have to deliberately and intentionally tell TPB what the file is, where the file is... etc. TPB doesn't create it's own list of anything. It is flat out not a 'search engine'. It just really isn't.

 

I still don't see anything in this that is in opposition to the argument on the table here!

 

Oh and Zach... you're unfortunately completely wrong with regards to your #3 response. It took over a year (which is a really good length for copy protection to survive) to crack the product... but crack it they did... and the sales dropped right after it was available on TPB. As my father told me when I was a small child: "Locks keep honest men honest."

 

I am not a creator. I don't know what it is like to see something I have worked hard on released into the public domain against my wishes and people taking it for free. I can of course imagine that it is not something I would ever want to happen and I do sympathise with you on this - you deserve remuneration for your work.

 

That said, I have a final few points to dribble out before I retire!

 

1) I still don't believe that it is piracy per se that is the crux of the argument here; it is instead that the censorship of TBP and the philosophy, methodology and implementation of thatcensorship sets a dangerous precedent for censorship of the web as a whole.

 

2) The "industry" behind the censorship of the TBP does not represent the best interest of artists and creators, it represents the best interest of the corporations behind those artists, corporations which in the main are as fundamentally parasitic as the pirates they claim to abhor.

The fact remains that the world has changed and large labels and production companies are being forced to adapt or die - something they are refusing to do. Artists now have a way to demonstrate, promote and sell their art direct to the public thus negating the need for a middle man and it is this change to the status quo that drives these spurious edicts through.

 

3) At the risk of getting off the main crux again and as mentioned above by BGR - correlation does not equal causation. It is exceptionally difficult to measure the impact piracy has on sales and the erroneous assumption many make is that 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale...which is quite clearly nonsense. A large number people who download for free would never have paid for the product if it was the only way of obtaining it - the only reason they possess it is because it was there for free.

 

For the record, I am not pro-piracy, but I do believe that the model under which people buy and sell intellectual property needs to change to reflect the changing digital environment we live in...and I believe that it is slowly changing for the better. Just look at the recent, wonderful surge in Kickstarter funded games and albums for inspiration.

 

 

Cheers all


Cheers!

 

Iain

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TPB is physically located in a country that makes piracy legal...

 

Uhm, which country is that? Just curious...

 

Strike that. Got it. Wikipedia has it all :)

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Sure. We can do anything we like and think it's right (eg. censoring content), if we think it doesn't go with ToS of AVSIM, is violation of rules or mistreatment of general forum posting behaviour.

 

I totally agree. But if a relatively small close dinternet-based association needs rules then surely society as a whole needs them for the same reasons?


Gerry Howard

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But if a relatively small close dinternet-based association needs rules then surely society as a whole needs them for the same reasons?

 

A society needs rules, agreed. But not censorship and society control. It's one thing putting up a rule telling you it's forbidden to do something and if you do, you are breaking the law, and another thing is prevent you from doing it in the first place.

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It's one thing putting up a rule telling you it's forbidden to do something and if you do, you are breaking the law, and another thing is prevent you from doing it in the first place.

It's one thing putting up a rule telling you it's forbidden to do kill people and if you do, you are breaking the law, and another thing is prevent you from killing in the first place?


Gerry Howard

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Let's not go into "killing" area. If you think killing is the same offense as stealing or censorship, you have your numbers totally messed up.

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It's one thing putting up a rule telling you it's forbidden to do kill people and if you do, you are breaking the law, and another thing is prevent you from killing in the first place?

Pretty ridicilous comparison. First, no one thinks that it is possible to prevent somebody killing someone in the first place. It wouldn't help if everything would be banned by the society from guns to kitchen knives, killing would always be possible at least with bare hands. It is human conciousness, almost built in understanding of ethics, feelings of empathy and just finally rules enforced by the society that prevents people killing each other. Second, to make youre comparison valid, proper censorship measures somewhere should help to prevent people from killing each other.

 

Point is, I really can't see no connection between government enforced censorship rules and people making homicides.

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Let's not go into "killing" area. If you think killing is the same offense as stealing or censorship, you have your numbers totally messed up.

I was simply pointing out the consequence of what you said.


Gerry Howard

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