Let's see if i've learned anything.

Headed due south at 180 from PHNL.

Used the Maule, set Nav1 for Molokai VOR 116.1

On the HSI, when the CDI bar was horizontal, or perpendicular to flight path is Aerocache.

Yep. At sea level, so don't be at 5k ft like me -

Let's see if i've learned anything.

Headed due south at 180 from PHNL.

Used the Maule, set Nav1 for Molokai VOR 116.1

On the HSI, when the CDI bar was horizontal, or perpendicular to flight path is Aerocache.

 

Hey, it looks like you've figured out how to successfully triangulate a position from VOR radials!

 

And even know which VOR stations to use, how to find their frequencies, and how to set up your instruments!

 

Nice job. :)

 

Yep. At sea level, so don't be at 5k ft like me -

 

Depending on distance to the station, this may not be a good idea... VOR signal in 3D looks like an inverted top. At lower altitudes and if you're distance from the station, you may not be able to get it...

 

This was modelled in MSFS, but I didn't try with FLIGHT yet...

 

 

P.S.: Just tested it - it's working OK!

 

I could get a station at 182NM when I climbed above 6000' more or less...

The tips for the Puu Waa Waa VOR aerocache still leave something to be desired...

 

They're giving "courses" for the OBSs that, if you depart from their recommended airport, put you in a reverse-sensing situation. Yeah, we will figure it out right away and spin the OBS around, but I feel for somebody using Bing on their recommended search terms "Navigating with VOR" and trying to do this for the first time.

 

I hesitate to complain too much as they actually are trying to encourage people to learn these systems, and that is commendable. I just wish the lesson-plan had been given a little more thought.

What is the absolute beginner supposed to do? Fly around at random? Well, I guess they'll eventually learn about how the VOR works that way.

 

That's pretty much how I did this last one. Ignored the map, tuned the radios and followed the instructions exactly. Ended up going the wrong way on the 22 heading and had to turn around when I saw the other needle wasn't approaching zero. It wasn't as much fun as knowing what I was doing.

 

Hook

I tried that too, going blind, right off their instructions. Same results. I expect there are now some confused people out there who've decided "VOR is too hard" and will hesitate to try the next one.

 

I hope not.

I figured it out easily using what I learned here.

Since I was flying around when the hunt started, I had to adjust the Navs, so I happened to circle around while doing that , and ended up right on point.

What is the absolute beginner supposed to do? Fly around at random?

 

Well this does take some understanding of how VORs works, no doubts there...

 

But going off the instructions... there is only one point where those two courses intersect (needles centered - ignoring the TO / FROM indications)

 

I followed "the instructions" as well except used the 226 Course as my primary course to follow a NorthEastly heading... one does have to then recognize you will have "reverse sensing" and will have to course correct opposite of "normal" (fly away from the needle).

 

I would have preferred (maybe) 202 dialed in No. 2 Nav, but with 22 plugged in (as per instructions) the needle did start to slowly swing to the center and just before it centered, the Aerocache appeared. (Edit: I said "maybe" and more I think about it, it is probably easier with 22 from an SA standpoint).

 

So... the instructions are "adequate". <_<

The absolute beginner has never heard of "reverse sensing". He doesn't know to "fly to the needle" as if it were the white line in the center of a road.

 

I'm trying to figure out if he's better off not knowing at this point.

 

I learned the instruments totally by accident, because they were tuned to Chicago when I took off from Meigs. One day I was flying north from the runway and noticed what the needle was doing. I turned toward Chicago, which was my destination, and it kept the needle centered. Discovered the glide slope needle shortly afterward. Eventually tried it with 500 foot ceiling... everything outside the cockpit was white, zero visibility, until suddeny the runway appeared. It wasn't long before I had a good idea how it all worked, but was probably FSX before I started using VOR to navigate.

 

Gotta love those old versions of MS Flight Simulator.

 

Hook

The absolute beginner has never heard of "reverse sensing".

 

But Hook... you could say this about virtually any aspect of flying.

 

I'm trying to figure out if he's better off not knowing at this point.

 

I can 100% guarantee you... if you get a VOR lesson from me, you will hear about reverse sensing. In RW ops, it is critical to the safe and accurate use of VOR navigation. I cannot imagine an instructor not bring up this topic... and even if they (the knucklehead) did not, it certainly would be in one's private pilot ground school package (say from a reputable source like Jeppesen).

 

Even here with FLIGHT... it is a basic topic that needs to be covered if one is going to learn how to correctly track to or from a VOR.

 

Edit: You do make a good point, in that... how much is too much? One would think with this new philosophy about "experiencing flight" VOR would be a topic for another sim.

Yes, the lessons we would offer to students would explain the things they need to know, and step them up gradually, from simple to more challenging scenarios.

 

The "lessons" MS is offering however, are to web-search for "Navigating with VOR". Then they are sending them straight into the more challenging scenarios, setting them up in a reverse sensing situation (if they follow the instructions, which of course they should, right?), and hoping somebody that's never touched VORs before, nor had an actual person explain it to them, figure out why the needles are going the opposite directions of which way they should.

 

Assuming that the person actually realizes that the needles are going the "wrong" way and doesn't think they must be doing something wrong since they can't find the goal by "following the needles."

 

When you teach somebody with "sink or swim" methodology, it's nice to start them off in the shallow end of the pool.

Today if I want to find an aerocache by using VOR I don't want to fumble around. I want to set the instruments and fly to the thing. I've got a lower tolerance for frustration than I did when I was first learning. But when I was first learning this stuff, just having an interesting excuse to fly was enough to overcome any frustration I might have had. It may be that a newcomer is better off without a lot of explanation.

 

The problem with trying to explain the entire process in one tutorial is that there's too much information. You're going to bore a lot of people and confuse a lot more. I've found that even though I understand VOR quite well and can use it without problems, half the time I don't know what the heck articles about the subject are talking about.

 

The only time I ever use reverse sensing is when I'm forced to: flying an ILS/localizer approach from the opposite end of the runway.

 

If I were trying to teach newcomers about the VOR, I'd set it up as aerocache-like tokens in a series of missions where each one unlocks the next one. An example would be, take off from Lanai and fly the 30 radial at 1000 feet, the token is over the coast of Molokai. You'd be able to re-fly these missions as many times as you wished. Simple description with a more detailed explanation in the mission itself.

 

Hook

If I were trying to teach newcomers about the VOR, I'd set it up as aerocache-like tokens in a series of missions where each one unlocks the next one. An example would be, take off from Lanai and fly the 30 radial at 1000 feet, the token is over the coast of Molokai. You'd be able to re-fly these missions as many times as you wished. Simple description with a more detailed explanation in the mission itself.

 

I wish MS had done exactly that, as it would permit teaching basic concepts then stepping up through the more advanced concepts.

 

Perhaps they will rectify the omission with Alaska. They are clearly interested in getting more people to use the navaids, or the recent aerocaches wouldn't be referenced to them.

Good idea, and do it in small segments.

The South Kauai VOR was good. You flew directly over the VOR to get the aerocache. The problem is, that wasn't the first VOR aerocache and it should have been.

 

Hook