Boeing 717 by PMDG ?

[Tabs 2,790]

Evan,

 

Look at the number next to my forum post count - does that really say "closed company" to you? How many other developers interact directly with customers to the level we do? I'm not some random "support agent" who doesn't know anything and was just hired to give people generic form answers. I talk to the programmers every single day directly, I am *heavily* involved in the general development and testing process for every product we make, and I advocate on behalf of our customers behind the scenes far more than anyone knows. Not everything I bring up gets implemented, but a good majority of it does. A great example recently are the customers and third party developers who've been asking for FMC/CDU read/write/display support in the SDK - I brought it up a few weeks ago with the team and a just few days ago was told that it's been implemented for the next NGX update as well as future products based on that codebase. A ton of the things that have been done for the NGX service packs are the result of the same process - myself and Paul are the main people who bring community issues to the attention of the programmers.

 

If your determination that we're a "closed" company is based on the fact that we don't drop everything to develop X Y or Z aircraft because a few people suggested it on the forum, then I'm not sure what to say since that's certainly not how I evaluate other companies myself. (in any industry) The idea that we've never developed an airplane based on customer demand is pretty hilarious - people begged for years for an updated 737NG, they've begged for years for us to do a 777 and they've begged for years for an updated 747. We did the 737 and we're doing the other two. Just because someone's pet aircraft idea (the 717 definitely is, just a fact) doesn't get done doesn't mean we don't listen to the wider more general requests. Please remember too that this forum represents a relatively small part of our user base - the vast majority do not post here.

 

Do you remember the NGX before release? There was a pretty incredible amount of preview material shown I thought, screenshots, Q&A from us, videos demonstrating things like the HGS etc... If you want "Today Vangelis did X, Alex did Y, and RSR did Z" every day, we're not going to do that - our internal development process is something we very rightfully and importantly protect from public view. It would serve no purpose to expose those things and quite frankly would just give competitors ammo against us.

 

The idea that we never take customer requests into consideration or that we have the next 10 years planned in spite of anything customers want is just not true however. Our current plans extend only to the currently announced products - 777, 747 v2, DC-6.

[Chock 17,769]

What Competition?

 

iFly, FSL, A2A, Leonardo, Quality Wings, FlyJSim, IXEG etc. PMDG make good stuff as we know, but they are certainly not without competitors.

 

Al

[mookie5913 0]

Ryan,

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

By "closed" I dont mean that you are no longer operating, I mean that you are non transparent in your development process. I can't expect you to document every single detail, but maybe a once a month official update would be really nice!

 

In the end I know that a forum post won't be considered in your highly secret and confidential virtual airplane development process, but It would be very nice to see updated information coming directly from PMDG on a regular basis!

 

Once again I don't want to bash, and regardless of how opaque you are I will buy the next plane, I would just love the process to be a little bit less painful!

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

 

 

Nice post, Ryan.

Edited May 26, 2012 by linux731

[mookie5913 0]

iFly, FSL, A2A, Leonardo, Quality Wings, FlyJSim, IXEG etc. PMDG make good stuff as we know, but they are certainly not without competitors.

 

Al

iFly- Hasnt even released the Feature pack update that they have been planning for months and months- Stalled

 

FSL- Is focusing on the scarebus and wont be working on anything else for a bit

 

Leonardo- Maddog, thats about it

 

Quality wings- they model simplistic "jump in and fly" planes that do not compete with PMDG

 

Flyjsim and the other one I have never heard of....

 

Looks pretty quiet to me...

[Tabs 2,790]

Evan - just because we're on top according to a lot of people doesn't mean we should get complacent, rest on our laurels and start giving away how we do things to people who would use it against us. I think you have a bit to learn about how business works.

 

I *was* addressing your complaints about transparency in my earlier post. Quite frankly, we have no obligation to be transparent in our actual development process - that was my entire point. You're a customer (of a future product you haven't paid for no less in the context of this discussion) You're not a shareholder and PMDG is not a public company - you have no right to know our internal operations details and neither does anyone else. What we're obligated to do is support customers who have purchased products we've actually released - I think we do that exceedingly well and I think we're very transparent about support issues when they arise. I routinely recruit normal users to test fixes with for example - I just did it earlier this week with the FIX page performance drop issue and a few of the users who'd complained. Same thing happened when we had the freezing issues post-release.

 

A lot of people like to think that "info about future products" and "support" are the same thing here. That's completely wrong. I will bend over backwards to help people having issues with products they've purchased - that is support to me. People complaining about wanting progress updates on things that are still months/years from release that they haven't paid a dime for or people complaining about our choices on what products to make - that's not support.

[mookie5913 0]

Ryan,

 

You are on top as far as I am concerned!

 

Im not going to go any farther with my comments because I feel like the issues has been thoroughly discussed. (thank you for the adult conversation btw...)

 

Your support is fanatical, and I have not and will never deny that. We all appreciate the work that you and the other mods put into maintaining this world class forum!

 

Thank you for the info Ryan!

[matchball 0]

I had no idea Daryl had said that.

Even so, I'm sure PMDG still won't do it out of respect for Level-D, a gentlemen's agreement.

 

But yeah, we are sorely lacking in the 757 area.

 

PMDG has said(at least I have been told) that incase the Level-D reports not doing it, they would consider to do it. So I belive Level-D doesn't give any annoucment yet so that the B757 will be open for them long way in the years...

 

E: Ryan Mariz:

 

" If they indicate they're no longer doing it then we'd definitely consider it - it's the favorite airliner of several of us here, myself included. "

[ahuimanu 50]

It would serve no purpose to expose those things and quite frankly would just give competitors ammo against us.

 

Found a mistake there Ryan. PMDG is peerless - you have no competitors. Contemplate that for a bit and please expand your developer team. The timespan for FSX is waning and there are many great airliners to develop.

[4116705510 4]

Found a mistake there Ryan. PMDG is peerless - you have no competitors. Contemplate that for a bit and please expand your developer team. The timespan for FSX is waning and there are many great airliners to develop.

 

To say they have absolutely no competitors isn't an accurate conjecture. I personally like PMDG's products very much, and speak of them highly. However, Flight Sim Labs is a developer whose systems modeling is near that of PMDG (their Concorde was an excellent acheivement for an airplane that hasn't flown in a decade), and the Airbus A3XX series will be an equal counterpart to the 737NGX, I'm sure. The thing is, there are other developers out there, and therefore they have competition; whether the others equal their abilities is of lesser importance, because others still exist.

 

Next, the timespan for FSX is by no means waning, to the contrary, new technologies are being developed everyday, and things are only getting better. A2A's new Accusim P-51 Mustan came out Sunday, and it is the sixth generation Accusim airplane; each release has produced an incrementlly better product, that does things previously thought untoutchable. Have you seen Orbx's new Stewart CZST Airport? It has 2cm per pixel of resolution on the airport grounds. They have trees that sway with the wind, snow that gathers on the rooftops, leaves that fall off as the days get shorter, and many other thing exist in their newest airports. The fact that Microsoft disbanded the Aces team was the greatest blessing yet given to us. Before, we'd have an new FS every two years, and yes there'd be new products, but seeing that a superior successor was just around the corner already, no new technologies were developed, nothing was heavilt researched, nothing got past the FS itself in being better. Now, it has been six years since FSX was released, and developers are introducing newer technologies, making the sim a more realistic product in all aspects: fligth dynamics, systems modeling, and the scenery. There is only a bright future ahead for FSX: PMDG will release two of the greatest widebodies soon, and a DC-7; Orbx will soon have out a Northern California, New England, and Great Britain, with a myriad of airports to go along (just this year!); A2A now has the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter on its books for Accusim, followed by the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II, and for the first time in years, their queue of Accusim in development as reached the pint where the exists only one more product past the current project, many new opportunities; Carenado keeps releasing their general aviation planes, although not the utmost in realism, they do the job, look very nice, and are great for those who want to get up and fly. As we look into the next five years, Orbx, PMDG, and others have already promised that they will continue to develop for at least this next half-decade, and by that time has been reached, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep developing. Now that computers exist that can handle FSX maxed-out (that are commercially available, and economically feasible), FSX is the only way to go, and is by no means waning, it is waxing!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

[...], and for the first time in years, their queue of Accusim in development as reached the pint where the exists only one more product past the current project, many new opportunities; Carenado keeps releasing their general aviation planes, although not the utmost in realism, they do the job, look very nice, and are great for those who want to get up and fly.

 

Very well written!

...and was that Freudian? :drinks:

[Caribpilot 56]

 

Quite frankly, we have no obligation to be transparent in our actual development process - that was my entire point. You're a customer (of a future product you haven't paid for no less in the context of this discussion) You're not a shareholder and PMDG is not a public company - you have no right to know our internal operations details and neither does anyone else. What we're obligated to do is support customers who have purchased products we've actually released - I think we do that exceedingly well and I think we're very transparent about support issues when they arise. I routinely recruit normal users to test fixes with for example - I just did it earlier this week with the FIX page performance drop issue and a few of the users who'd complained. Same thing happened when we had the freezing issues post-release.

 

A lot of people like to think that "info about future products" and "support" are the same thing here. That's completely wrong. I will bend over backwards to help people having issues with products they've purchased - that is support to me. People complaining about wanting progress updates on things that are still months/years from release that they haven't paid a dime for or people complaining about our choices on what products to make - that's not support.

 

Well I am glad someone finally came out an said this. I have to shake my head everytime a topic like this comes up and folks start batching companies for not telling them what they are planning. There is a clear difference with a company that outrightly refuses to respond to any questions and those who choice to give diplomatic responses. Its also annoying that this topic is on interest in the B717 and someone will post "we need a 757 or we need an A340-500"

Whether PMDG creates the B717 or not I think its good for the developers to see what their potential customers are interested in and that to me is what topics like these are useful for. While there is a large customer base who do not use AVSIM forums, topics like these encourage healthy discussions can could one day lead to more interest and maybe even ANOTHER developer considering this aircraft.

[duchman 1]

Boeing might want to consider a return to production for the 717 to compete with the cs100 from Bombardier . the only thing that i would have done different is an all composite presher fuselage and winglets or racket wingtips and o led flat screens for the flight deck.

[Fallap 4]

Boeing might want to consider a return to production for the 717 to compete with the cs100 from Bombardier . the only thing that i would have done different is an all composite presher fuselage and winglets or racket wingtips and o led flat screens for the flight deck.

 

I think thats VERY unlikely. The 717 is a dead horse, and Boeing is already developing a competetor for the CS100 and the Airbus Neo series. http://en.wikipedia..../Boeing_737_MAX

 

I flew with Blue1 717-200 last year, quite a ride! And it was really something special.

[qantas_guy 1]

I'd love to see one of these too.