What % of the 777 project is complete?

[EGLL77W 1,508]

That's the reason you left? I thought most people don't bother since they're yet to released a finished product.

 

Sorry, should of made myself clearer. Basically, I followed them right from the Exterior. Then in February I think it was I decided to stop waiting and bothering. Why? They have some of the rudest customer service going, they don't say anything but "Standby". Then I came over here a Month or so later to discover this fantastic company were developing my most loved Aircraft! After Munich I was then hooked! Don't get me wrong I did buy the other 777 as it was only 22GBP for me. I didn't really know about their NGX until a few months ago, I was always a massive fan of their 744 though.

 

And yes I regret it ;)

[davidz 26]

The other developer can say what they like, but the fact is that their business practice would be fraught with legal problems under consumer law in many jurisdictions. Much consumer law would require that all purchased goods come with a non-disclaimable warranty of fit-for-purpose. Not matter how much you represent to the customer that it is an incomplete product, a buggy program is not fit-for-purpose. Having said that, I don't claim to know anything about consumer law in the jurisdiction that the other developer operates in...

[Noble. 142]

Sorry, should of made myself clearer. Basically, I followed them right from the Exterior. Then in February I think it was I decided to stop waiting and bothering. Why? They have some of the rudest customer service going, they don't say anything but "Standby". Then I came over here a Month or so later to discover this fantastic company were developing my most loved Aircraft! After Munich I was then hooked! Don't get me wrong I did buy the other 777 as it was only 22GBP for me. I didn't really know about their NGX until a few months ago, I was always a massive fan of their 744 though.

 

And yes I regret it ;)

 

I could put up with terrible customer support if their products were any good. I lost faith in CS a LONG time ago.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

 

 

So that means...

 

They're watching this thread. :spiteful:

[boeing247 0]

I really hate to toot Captain Sim's horn in a PMDG forum (and that's not what I'm trying to do), but I'm not sure why Captain Sim's (the admin of the CS forums) post is so unprofessional. He was responding to a post by a PMDG developer which was casting aspersions on CS's business practices. So is only PMDG allowed to make such posts?

 

And if I may quote PMDG:

 

"We're not going to entertain discussions about other products that are competing with our 777 here - sorry, it's just better that way if we don't. If you want to debate such things, that's what the Avsim general forum is for."

 

And yet here PMDG itself is bringing up its competing product.

 

Okay, I realize I sounded really harsh, but what I'm trying to get across is that I don't think that there should be so much hateful debate on either end, especially by the developers themselves (again on both ends). We're starting to sound like fanatical fans at a football game. And I also want to say that I didn't pop over here to put down PMDG and endorse Captain Sim. The truth is that I'm fine with both companies--and I will not hesitate in saying that PMDG leads flight sim development. I just don't feel that this is a mature way to handle a situation which is really not that important at all.

 

So please, don't take it as anything more.

 

P.S. regarding that post on the legality of releasing the unfinished product, I think it would be legal because it does complete it's purpose--to glean insight from the public on what needs fixing. But I'm not sure if that's a valid purpose. You may be right...

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Maybe PMDG should move its forums to their own server? (i.e. not depend on AVSIM)

[boeing247 0]

That would certainly be better, but I'm not crazy about the general trashing of PMDG and CS by each other is particularly constructive on either side. Considering that if you look at PMDG's (Randazzo's) posts and then at CS's ("Captain Sim" admin), you'll notice that they're saying about the same thing about each other, so it's just aspersions for the sake of aspersions.

[Nathan3219 113]

I could put up with terrible customer support if their products were any good. I lost faith in CS a LONG time ago.

 

I'm still waiting for the flicker issue in my JS4100 to be fixed :Thinking:

[SKEWR 364]

If you think RSR's comments were unprofessional then why continue to post on PMDG's forum? Be mature and vote with your wallet. If you want to forego the PMDG 777 for the CS one then do it. I for one will buy the best simulation of the 777 which I'm sure will be the one in 2038, 2039 or even 2040.

 

I think its pretty bad form to come on a company's board and try to be negative. If you don't like something, you vote with your wallet/purse/fanny pack (lol) I purchased the CS757 and I was not a happy camper that they had so many patches or blocks or whatever they are called. I don't bash them. I just will not buy anything else from them. With PMHD or HG or whatever that forum mod called PMDG, I know I'm going to get a simulation where I can pick my livery, put my plane anywhere in FSX and fly it with no problems. My AP will work, I'll be able to have the plane follow a route of my choosing, my landing gear will come up, I will be able to taxi, in short I will be able to simulate flying a plane. With the CS 777? Not so much.

 

For the couple of posters painting CS as the innocent guys who are just responding to the "arrogant" guy with the hat, can you please point me to the post where DShutt (Level D) took a shot at CS in this thread? CS sure took a shot at their 757... So is it only OK for CS to make such posts...? Is it OK to cast aspersions on a dev company that had nothing to do with the thread?

[EGLL77W 1,508]

 

I replied on their forum and my post was deleted within 5 minutes. What does that say ha.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

I replied on their forum and my post was deleted within 5 minutes. What does that say ha.

What did you write?

[boeing247 0]

If you think RSR's comments were unprofessional then why continue to post on PMDG's forum? Be mature and vote with your wallet. If you want to forego the PMDG 777 for the CS one then do it. I for one will buy the best simulation of the 777 which I'm sure will be the one in 2038, 2039 or even 2040.

 

I think its pretty bad form to come on a company's board and try to be negative. If you don't like something, you vote with your wallet/purse/fanny pack (lol) I purchased the CS757 and I was not a happy camper that they had so many patches or blocks or whatever they are called. I don't bash them. I just will not buy anything else from them. With PMHD or HG or whatever that forum mod called PMDG, I know I'm going to get a simulation where I can pick my livery, put my plane anywhere in FSX and fly it with no problems. My AP will work, I'll be able to have the plane follow a route of my choosing, my landing gear will come up, I will be able to taxi, in short I will be able to simulate flying a plane. With the CS 777? Not so much.

 

For the couple of posters painting CS as the innocent guys who are just responding to the "arrogant" guy with the hat, can you please point me to the post where DShutt (Level D) took a shot at CS in this thread? CS sure took a shot at their 757... So is it only OK for CS to make such posts...? Is it OK to cast aspersions on a dev company that had nothing to do with the thread?

 

You seem to have misinterpreted what I said, as I completely agree with what you're saying (and I wish that CS and PMDG would). Yes, I am a fan of Captain Sim, as I have most of their products (which all work just fine for me--not PMDG fine, but they work, and the 777 will when it's done), but that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting because I see the comments from both companies to extremely unprofessional and immature. I can, in this instance, SOMEWHAT (emphasis on the somewhat) justify CS's comment, because it was in defense of a remark made by PMDG, but I still am not pleased--they could have handled it better. (And as for the Level D 757 comments they made, I had never heard of those, so I can't offer an opinion, but from the sound of it, it's the same as what PMDG as done here, so it is not in fact okay for CS to say that.)

 

So to recap, PMDG should not have gone against their own orders (not to bring up Captain Sim's product) and posted disparaging remarks about Captain Sim's product, and CS should not have retaliated in the way they did. I realize they are competing companies, but come on, they're not making real airplanes and selling them for millions and millions of dollars. It leaves a foul taste in my mouth for both companies. Both of these companies are my two favorite companies to buy from, and I hold both in equal regard, so I'm not here to "vote" on who's better. There seems to be a big divide through the flight sim community over PMDG and CS which I don't take part in (probably because most of the animosity towards CS seems to be based on things that happened before I became a customer of either company). Both have a good reputation based on my experience, and it would be great to see them let each other sell their own products, or I'm going to be less inclined to purchase them (again, both companies!). I mean, really, it's called the flight sim community for a reason.

[Noble. 142]

If you think RSR's comments were unprofessional then why continue to post on PMDG's forum? Be mature and vote with your wallet. If you want to forego the PMDG 777 for the CS one then do it. I for one will buy the best simulation of the 777 which I'm sure will be the one in 2038, 2039 or even 2040.

 

I think its pretty bad form to come on a company's board and try to be negative. If you don't like something, you vote with your wallet/purse/fanny pack (lol) I purchased the CS757 and I was not a happy camper that they had so many patches or blocks or whatever they are called. I don't bash them. I just will not buy anything else from them. With PMHD or HG or whatever that forum mod called PMDG, I know I'm going to get a simulation where I can pick my livery, put my plane anywhere in FSX and fly it with no problems. My AP will work, I'll be able to have the plane follow a route of my choosing, my landing gear will come up, I will be able to taxi, in short I will be able to simulate flying a plane. With the CS 777? Not so much.

 

For the couple of posters painting CS as the innocent guys who are just responding to the "arrogant" guy with the hat, can you please point me to the post where DShutt (Level D) took a shot at CS in this thread? CS sure took a shot at their 757... So is it only OK for CS to make such posts...? Is it OK to cast aspersions on a dev company that had nothing to do with the thread?

 

I couldn't agree more. I don't really know why people have such a problem with Robert's comments anyway - as someone has already mentioned, in other industries Captain Sim wouldn't be able to do what they do. Plus, it must be quite frustrating for a developer to see a "competitor" (I use this term loosely) finishing 20% of a product, then selling it for only $13 less than their own superior product done practically to completion, which has taken years to do. I can understand the whole "pay to test" method in certain situations - AirSimmer did it as they needed a cash injection, so it was probably a case of using the method, or closing up shop; I seriously doubt Captain Sim need the cash injection. Not to mention the fact they haven't released a finished product in quite a while, which gives the impression they're perfectly happy to work on a product while people are paying for it, and when the revenue dries up - they lose interest. I don't doubt for one second their products would actually be much better if they attempted to finish it before selling it.

 

Robert/PMDG don't have anything to live up to - so I think they deserve at least a bit of arrogance, the comments from CS, however, are quite hilarious. I've always laughed at their "CIP concept" and wondered why it wasn't called "PNFL concept" (Pay now, fly later). Plus, I think if PMDG released their T7 now, we'd all know who'd be "#2 in the 777 fight" really - and if Captain Sim don't know this, they're quite deluded.

 

You seem to have misinterpreted what I said, as I completely agree with what you're saying (and I wish that CS and PMDG would). Yes, I am a fan of Captain Sim, as I have most of their products (which all work just fine for me--not PMDG fine, but they work, and the 777 will when it's done), but that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting because I see the comments from both companies to extremely unprofessional and immature. I can, in this instance, SOMEWHAT (emphasis on the somewhat) justify CS's comment, because it was in defense of a remark made by PMDG, but I still am not pleased--they could have handled it better. (And as for the Level D 757 comments they made, I had never heard of those, so I can't offer an opinion, but from the sound of it, it's the same as what PMDG as done here, so it is not in fact okay for CS to say that.)

 

So to recap, PMDG should not have gone against their own orders (not to bring up Captain Sim's product) and posted disparaging remarks about Captain Sim's product, and CS should not have retaliated in the way they did. I realize they are competing companies, but come on, they're not making real airplanes and selling them for millions and millions of dollars. It leaves a foul taste in my mouth for both companies. Both of these companies are my two favorite companies to buy from, and I hold both in equal regard, so I'm not here to "vote" on who's better. There seems to be a big divide through the flight sim community over PMDG and CS which I don't take part in (probably because most of the animosity towards CS seems to be based on things that happened before I became a customer of either company). Both have a good reputation based on my experience, and it would be great to see them let each other sell their own products, or I'm going to be less inclined to purchase them (again, both companies!). I mean, really, it's called the flight sim community for a reason.

 

Surely these two statements are a tad contradictory?

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

I've always laughed at their "CIP concept" and wondered why it wasn't called "PNFL concept" (Pay now, fly later).

:LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:

[SKEWR 364]

As for the PHDG, I wish him very best luck with his 2038 release. Do not rush things, 2039 is good too. But I'm afraid with ELC, EFB its going to be 2040. WX radar (no lame excuse this time!) will take another year or two. That reminds me an old story with LeveD 757 which is still coming. Thanks god I'm not the PHDG fan...

 

I bolded the 757 comment for you, Bram. (The above is a part of the quote from the admin at CS BTW).

 

The "mudslinging" seems to be a large issue to you. I can most certainly understand and respect your position, but I happen to agree with RSR on this topic. Maybe if CS had been like AirSimmer and said "Hey, we need some money" then I probably wouldn't feel that way. As stated previously, I did not like my CS experience so giving them the benefit of the doubt is a bit difficult for me. The PNFL (that should be trade marked!) plan, at best, is an odd practice in my opinion.

 

I'm not going to argue with them, I'm not going to try to chastise them on their own boards, or anything else overt on the internet. I'm going to vote with my $$$ and advise friends I know and crews I meet to steer well clear of CS products.

 

Finally, I think a lot of what you said in your post had merit. But for me, and possibly many others in the flight sim community, CS has not done well in terms of consumer trust in the past.