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The big Carbon Cub topic

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It's not about the dollar amounts... it's about consistency in pricing. Microsoft decided early-on that a VC-aircraft able to haul pax and cargo, at a moderate speed, with an IFR-capable panel, was worth $15.

 

They've now decided that a less-capable aircraft in all respects (except STOL capability), as a mere upgrade to an existing non-cockpit aircraft, is worth the same $15.

 

That doesn't add up. If they actually value the Cub at $15, then the Maule should be $20 or so. If they actually value the Maule at $15, the Cub should be about $10.

 

Pricing them both the same is a little illogical, regardless of the actual price set.

 

 

Now, personally, I do consider the Cub worth the amount of dollars being asked. I'd just like the prices they set to have some kind of basis other than whimsy. I do believe I'll hold off a bit and see if an "upgrade" offer appears, though.

 

They gave the buyers of Alaska A FREE AIRCRAFT with the Alaska program probably because promo shots of Alaska needed a bush plane, and the cub is the most popular bush plane in that territory. It was like a free sample or teaser. A plane is a plane, whether it's a Maule, or a Carbon Cub, and charging $14.95 for a Deluxe plane, which they had to put alot of work into, doesn't seem out of line at all, considering the prices for 3rd party add on aircraft in other flight sims. I paid around $20 for a Cessna 152, 7 years ago for Pete's sake. So many have complained and complained about 3rd party developers not being allowed into Flight. I can't imagine a 3rd party developer in his right mind , reading these threads with people having a stroke because they have to part with a few dollars for an aircraft, wanting to get involved with Flight customers.

 

I started buying add on stuff for Flight sims in the early 90s, and I have never heard so much whining and complaining about pricing, as I have since I started reading about people utilizing Flight. I think it may be due to the fact that they got Flight for free, and now everyone expects everything else to be free, or at most a few dollars. It's just that this constant complaining, at least for me, gets really tedious.


 

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Too true. We need to be selective - don't buy everything that moves. Let the devs know what we want. Good stuff at a good price.

 

How do you get rid of rubbish out of your hanger? I want to delete the Icon and the carbon cub.

 

I knew how to do that in FS9 and I don't know how to do it in Flight.

 

Flight is good. Flight is excellent in many respects. But I only want to buy what I like. Simple as that.

 

 

The CUb is rubbish. Why do they allow you to stuff four people plus cargo in a two seater?

 

Come on MS this is becoming a joke. I agree we all need to be more selective.

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I'm ok with it, I'll buy in my morning. It's like $30 for massive Alaska and the cub? Who wouldn't have bought that pack? I would rarely fly the cub with no vc, so to me m getting a whole fun plane for $15. But yah, some floats would be nice.

 

Simon

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Sometimes (many times) I think its us that have lost touch with reality. We have a team of over 50 people with all the attendant overhead (salarys, medical and God knows what else) Plus all the infrastructure to support them (office space, computers, electricity) plus development costs (I am sure speed-tree and jaunts to photograph cockpits and record sounds is not free) plus tons of crap I will never be aware of........

 

And we want the output of that effort not to exceed lets say.... $5?

 

When the efforts of 2 guys in their spare time is more expensive, in the current market? When we readily pay $10 or more for a day-only-summer-only, autogenless Hawaii with no planes at all, and consider it good?

 

Yes, we are quite realistic. I am sure if we were running a business, thats how we would value our work as well.

 

And when did the Cub, that so many have been describing as their favorite plane suddenly become "Rubbish?" :blink:


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Sometimes (many times) I think its us that have lost touch with reality. We have a team of over 50 people with all the attendant overhead (salarys, medical and God knows what else) Plus all the infrastructure to support them (office space, computers, electricity) plus development costs (I am sure speed-tree and jaunts to photograph cockpits and record sounds is not free) plus tons of crap I will never be aware of........

 

And we want the output of that effort not to exceed lets say.... $5?

 

When the efforts of 2 guys in their spare time is more expensive, in the current market?

 

Yes, we are quite realistic. I am sure if we were running a business, thats how we would value our work as well.

 

And when did the Cub, that so many have been describing as their favorite plane suddenly become "Rubbish?" :blink:

 

 

Until they fix the payload capacity..it. Is RUBBISH......

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Sometimes (many times) I think its us that have lost touch with reality. We have a team of over 50 people with all the attendant overhead (salarys, medical and God knows what else) Plus all the infrastructure to support them (office space, computers, electricity) plus development costs (I am sure speed-tree and jaunts to photograph cockpits and record sounds is not free) plus tons of crap I will never be aware of........

 

And we want the output of that effort not to exceed lets say.... $5?

 

When the efforts of 2 guys in their spare time is more expensive, in the current market?

 

Yes, we are quite realistic. I am sure if we were running a business, thats how we would value our work as well.

 

And when did the Cub, that so many have been describing as their favorite plane suddenly become "Rubbish?" :blink:

 

That is exactly the point. Who would spend months designing and programming something, and know that when they place it on sale, potential customers are going to complain that they have to pay a reasonable price for it. Check the pricing of add on aircraft in other flight sims, or engines for railroad sims, and you will see that $14,95 is a bargain compared to what the 3rd party developers are getting.


 

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While I was waiting for the cub I bought this:http://www.alabeo.com/index.php?accion=product&correl=78 for 20 bucks.

 

What I got for that extra five bucks makes the cub look like freeware. I really enjoy Flight and was really looking forward to the cub but I'm actually flying FSX more now and I'm going to hold off buying any aircraft until I see something I really like. I really wanted to see that cub with floats too. Add floats and I'll get it.

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Until they fix the payload capacity..it. Is RUBBISH......

 

And then somebody will announce that the fuel flow must be more exact, then somebody else will announce that there simply must be skis, then somebody else will announce that anything not a jet is unacceptable....... and we will continue the previous cycle where nobody is ever satisfied with a product until the development costs far exceed any profit it could ever hope to make.

 

Exactly why so many ambitious projects for another sim suddenly disappear in mid-stride.

 

Edit: seems my post was just a few seconds too late!

 

As for the plane above: I always think those are as much a labor of love as a commercial effort. If they get more than $50,000 (random estimate) for that over its lifetime before it starts showing up on the torrents, I will be very happy for them. That is not, however a dollar amount Microsoft or pretty much anyone large is going to be interested in. If we want the price for full planes to be similar to a cockpit-less plane, and cockpit-less planes are so much cheaper to make, what would you do if you were Microsoft?

 

Right! Bring on the cockpit-less planes!

 

Then we can settle down and complain about that, too. (some more)


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Until they fix the payload capacity..it. Is RUBBISH......

If it bothers you so much, don't over load it. I love it and will fly it even more now that it has a VC. Did the other aircraft have a working Carb heat control, I will have to check it out. Is carb ice now a possibility?

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They gave the buyers of Alaska A FREE AIRCRAFT with the Alaska program probably because promo shots of Alaska needed a bush plane, and the cub is the most popular bush plane in that territory. It was like a free sample or teaser.

 

Things you pay for aren't free. The Basic Cub was part of the package, and a portion of the selling price certainly can be considered to be covering the Cub. Was the Alaska scenery itself alone worth the price of the bundle? To me, it was. But that doesn't make anything else included with the bundle "free."

 

A plane is a plane, whether it's a Maule, or a Carbon Cub, and charging $14.95 for a Deluxe plane, which they had to put alot of work into, doesn't seem out of line at all,

 

If your argument is that all Deluxe planes should cost the same, then all Basic planes should also cost the same. But they don't. MS has already determined that some planes should have higher prices than others, which is why the warbirds don't all share the same price.

 

considering the prices for 3rd party add on aircraft in other flight sims. I paid around $20 for a Cessna 152, 7 years ago for Pete's sake.

 

Again, the actual dollar amounts are not relevant to my issue here... it's the proportional pricing. A cockpit-upgrade to an aircraft I already have bought (as part of a bundle) should not command the same price as a full aircraft that's more complex for them to make and also more useful and offers better value to the customer.

 

So many have complained and complained about 3rd party developers not being allowed into Flight. I can't imagine a 3rd party developer in his right mind , reading these threads with people having a stroke because they have to part with a few dollars for an aircraft, wanting to get involved with Flight customers.

 

You keep fixating on the actual dollars... that's fine, but it has exactly nothing to do with what I'm saying in the post you quoted. I would be making the exact same argument if the Maule and Cub both cost $5 or $50.

 

My position is simply that one of them is priced wrong if they both cost the same.

 

I started buying add on stuff for Flight sims in the early 90s, and I have never heard so much whining and complaining about pricing, as I have since I started reading about people utilizing Flight. I think it may be due to the fact that they got Flight for free, and now everyone expects everything else to be free, or at most a few dollars.

 

Asking for a logical method of selecting prices is not remotely asking for everything to be free.

 

It's just that this constant complaining, at least for me, gets really tedious.

 

Indeed it does. But if we're going to have a discussion forum, it seems rather silly to try to shut out every dissenting opinion.

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I edited the topic title and promoted this topic to the 'official' Cub topic. Let's try to centralize all discussion about the plane in this topic! I also merged a few other posts from elsewhere on this forum into this one.

 

Totally agree with this. Let's have just one topic about the carbon club.

 

you will see that $14,95 is a bargain compared to what the 3rd party developers are getting.

 

Agree, but I already bought the carbon cub with Alaska.Why does a cockpit in Flight cost the same as a de luxe (what does that mean?) airlplane?

 

 

And when did the Cub, that so many have been describing as their favorite plane suddenly become "Rubbish?"

 

It was never my favorite plane but it became rubbish when they releashed a VC t $14,95

 

 

I now think that 1200 points, same price as the Maule, is too high...

 

Absolutely.

 

and you will see that $14,95 is a bargain compared to what the 3rd party developers are getting.

 

Absolutely. But if you don't like it don't buy it. That is all I am saying..

I'm going to hold off buying any aircraft until I see something I really like.

 

Me too. How about a Beaver or a Twin Otter?

 

 

Until they fix the payload capacity..it. Is RUBBISH.....

 

Agree.

 

 

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one of them is priced wrong if they both cost the same

 

Agreed. $15 is a lot for the cub. Why is it $15?

 

I will not be buying. Shame. Coulda had me there..if this is to be the "new" price for "deluxe" A/C I might just stop buying flying DLC and just stik with the sceneries..Happy with flying around the (very reasonably priced) AK with the (very reasonably priced) Maule

 

EDIT: I should make clear that I agree with Ray here..I am not specifically bemoaning the $15 price tag; it's more a moan about the fact that e are paying $15 for a cockpit after being "sucked in" by the VC'less (never flew it myself) planes..cue $15 for a 'pit for all of the warbirds


JAKE EYRE
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Or they could have just released it with Alaska at the higher price we were all expecting.

 

And that would have made sense. $30 for Alaska with a new VC aircraft would've gone over well enough; it's pretty much what people were expecting. But Alaska is last month's news, and now people are faced with a cockpit that costs as much as Alaska did? Somebody over at MS is making some pretty bizarre marketing decisions.

 

Hm, I knew this could happen but I am very surprised at the price... It's the same price as Alaska...?!? Which already had the Cub, be it without VC. So you could say the VC alone costs 15 dollars? I find that a bit odd. The Maule opened up all kids of jobs but the Cub offers no new jobs and missions at all.

 

Very true. The Maule had a great deal of value at the time for what you could do with it. But the same price for a cockpit with no new capabilities seems a bit silly to me.

 

Now, for somebody buying Flight for the first time, it might make sense to have a choice between a Maule or a Cub; but there's still the issue of the Cub being dead slow by comparison.

 

When Alaska was released I said MS did a clever move by offering it for 15 bucks only. But now I can only say this isn't a very clever move... A LOT of people who are on the fence will step away now. I don't think this is good news. Quite a few people were disappointed with the overal quality of Alaska and they certainly won't buy this one now. If the next plane isn't a complete different one (bigger) with VC, I don't know what's going to happen with Flight...

 

That's what I'm holding out for -- a more capable and/or faster aircraft.

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I will buy the Cub, mostly because I want to cast my vote for VC aircraft. However, I agree with RoboRay that the pricing is illogical and disappointing. Although, that would seem par for the course MS's logic so far would leave a Vulcan with a serious headache.

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That price-point has actually gotten me to reconsider purchasing... I'll have to think about it.

 

Same here. I expected around $10.00 for it but I'm having a problem seeing the worth of upgrading because I already have the Maule if I want to play with instruments.

 

Can't say I'm not disappointed. For $15.00 I really had expected a float version and perhaps a ski version. I understand that a float version would have changed the flight model but a ski version would have almost been a "give me" with only having to model the skis and not having to change anything.

 

My wife's business van broke down yesterday and she had to cancel all her appointments until it's fixed so I'm short of play money until I find out the monetary damage from loss of business as well as repairs. So for me this week is an over priced, IMO, plane or half a tank of gas for my car.

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