Flight post mortem.

[LHookins 3,103]

CryogenicPilot: That is... a little strange. I gotta go along with HiFlyer above.

 

This is what the teenager who operates the PMDG 737NGX with real world checklists is going to possibly consider

 

How many of these teenagers do you know personally?

 

Hook

[Glynn 405]

I just got it, and it runs like a slide show were FSX runs rather good on my system.

Hello

Turn off the Bathymetry, that kills a lot of fps and get away from norfolk as that is using 4096 textures.

[Gibbage 199]

Hello

Turn off the Bathymetry, that kills a lot of fps and get away from norfolk as that is using 4096 textures.

 

Thanks for the tips! I was planning on visiting the forums once I get settled down in the new house. I just released the KCFS Seabee for P3D, so im excited to support the product.

[timest 472]

Thanks for the tips! I was planning on visiting the forums once I get settled down in the new house. I just released the KCFS Seabee for P3D, so im excited to support the product.

Congrats on your move Kevin, hope all is going well ;)

[CryogenicPilot 1]

CryogenicPilot: That is... a little strange. I gotta go along with HiFlyer above.

 

 

 

How many of these teenagers do you know personally?

 

Hook

 

Strange?

 

Go on Youtbue and the vast majority of videos are by teens who are all about real world authenticity, PPLs, etc.

 

It is only one segment of the flight sim community, but the statement there are no young simmers entering the FS community is just not accurate in my experience. They might not come to AVSIM, but they are out there in bigger numbers than it seems. This is why I don't get all panicky with threads like "The Future of Our Hobby" and others. There is always new blood flowing in even if you (we) can't see it...

[dmaher 0]

CryogenicPilot I agree, and when you fly online there's a lot of young people.

And some of them have amazing stick and rudder skills.

I did some online beta testing with a few of these guys...it was so much fun.

I didn't even know that kind of precision formation was possible.

Let's say, I got schooled

[HiFlyer 9,359]

I myself have not seen it claimed that no young simmers are entering the community, so I am uncertain of the need to refute such a statement. I am also uncertain how to acquire the ages of posters on YouTube to self confirm you own assertion, though it is probably safe to assume that some large percentage are "young" and even interested in ppls and flight simulation as well, though what the numbers are, is not, as far as I am aware known.

 

I am not sure this was ever disputed, either.

 

Moving past that a bit, it was you who stated that "It's not little kids (playing Flight?) This is where Microsoft made it's biggest mistake with "Flight". It was too simplistic for the teenagers to get behind... The mainstay of the gaming industry... And it wasn't exciting (interesting) enough for casual gamers"

 

These are sweeping statements, but the first part is directly contrary to personal experience of at least some of us, and the second is probably open to dispute by several enthusiastic teens in the flight forum, probably starting with OMGBBQ32. The third part, that it was not interesting enough for casual gamers is, as far as I am aware, an unknown, except to Microsoft, which has released no numbers that would support the proposition either way.

[CryogenicPilot 1]

I'm seeing a bit of myopia here because the median age of most AVSIM posters is probably on the older side. That's just a guess, and that's not a bad thing by any means... BUT it is not representative of who is ENTERING the hobby which is what some posters believe is a very small percentage. I believe this is a false statistic and DMaher also agrees there is a significant amount of teens (and up) who are entering on a regular basis, too. That's the main point I want to get across because all you have to do is go OUTSIDE Avsim and you can see (partially) who is using certain addon products, how they are using them, etc.

 

So, again, the future of Flight Sim is not in any danger of dying out because of the demise of "Flight".

 

The third part, that it was not interesting enough for casual gamers is, as far as I am aware, an unknown, except to Microsoft, which has released no numbers that would support the proposition either way.

 

You don't need statistical evidence to deduce most mainstream gamers want excitement a.k.a. explosions and violence in their titles. Just compare mainstream gaming titles to the smaller simulation genere in terms of sales. I shouldn't have to explain a statement like this unless you are unwilling to look at the realities of the video game industry as a whole?

 

But I can also see this is one of those touchy subjects some "Flight" supporters aren't willing to talk about yet because of how raw the whole thing still is, so I will eave it at that...

[HiFlyer 9,359]

I am a member of several gaming forums where the demographic could safely be said to be quite a bit younger than what you mentioned. The awareness of flight simulation is high, and there are several former FSX players, some of whom are indeed going for PPL's and such, though the majority considered FSX as a sort of PC tech demo, since its become a meme that if you can run FSX, most modern games are a piece of cake.

 

Its a benchmarking tool, essentially, and while some people played it occasionally, most had uninstalled and forgotten it. I have lots (oh, boy, lots!) of posts on those forums extolling the Virtues of 3PD, especially of the Aerosoft variety, of which I was particularly enamored at the time, and I was slightly surprised that the threads actually proved popular.

 

But until I mentioned it, and showed pictures, most people had no clue on earth that FSX had extensive 3PD, or that the sim had advanced beyond the benchmarking toy that most had fiddled with and uninstalled, usually as a freely admitted pirate version. Once the subject was broached, some intermittent current users stepped forwards, but never more than a handful. (actually the max per site was 3)

 

As a curiosity, I always found it interesting that even those who still sometimes played the sim, (or just simply professed moderate to strong interest in flying) nonetheless almost uniformly would not hear any good words about Xplane, and even suggesting it as a possibility meant the next page at a minimum would be full of jeering. (Which as usual, set me to thinking, long before I first opened my big mouth on any flight forum)

 

Anyway, I always considered the whole issue of simming in the wider world as a general wash, since even those professing an interest often ended their statement by saying they needed to go find a good torrent. Some of the most popular video posters, if you follow their threads backwards and read, will also hint broadly where all those nice planes they are showcasing came from.

 

One of the reasons I believed in flight as at least a partial answer to many current dilemmas, and mentioned more than once GFWL and Steam anti-piracy protections, now gone, along with Flight.

 

You don't need statistical evidence to deduce most mainstream gamers want excitement a.k.a. explosions and violence in their titles. Just compare mainstream gaming titles to the smaller simulation genere in terms of sales. I shouldn't have to explain a statement like this unless you are unwilling to look at the realities of the video game industry as a whole?

 

Never denied it, and made the argument myself elsewhere. But few market segments are monoliths, else none of those same gamers would be also seeking PPL's and playing flight sims, either. Heck I am a gamer and currently have several dozen games on my games hard drive. (Thanks, Steam!) There are always sub-segments, and you also don't need much statistical evidence to deduce that some segment of younger people will be amenable to the blandishments of flight, most especially as the first part was free and the rest was deliberately kept inexpensive.

 

I am going to trust that Microsoft at the very least did that part of their homework before throwing millions in cash at the project.

[LHookins 3,103]

No one ever said there weren't a lot of young people interested in Flight. I don't study FSX so I don't know what the demographics are like for it.

 

What we're trying to say here is that FSX and the 737NGX isn't attracting a lot of younger people to flight simming. But Flight is. Sure, there may be a few younger people who got into the larger, more complicated planes, but that's not what attracted them to the hobby, and that's not what they started with.

 

And I've said all along that once you get them interested, many will go on to more serious flying and eventually may end up in the NGX.

 

Hook

[Gibbage 199]

I think we NEED to attract young pilots into our hobby if we are to survive. Not kids that want to ram you in a free P-51, but kids that have an interest in aviation. I was 12 or 13 when I first started flying a DOS version of MSFS, and its enriched my life more then anything in my young life. I have had some amazing jobs due to this, friends, and flights. Right now, there is a shortage of pilots in GA, like there is a shortage of sim pilots. We need to kick away the notion that you MUST be able to fly a 737NGX in order to be a true sim pilot, as each simmer has there own likes. I hoped that Flight would bring new blood into simming, and it did. Just not enough for MS to justify developing further.

 

I wonder in 20 years, will there be someone like me, that I inspired, as I was inspired some 20 years ago.

[mikea76 184]

No one ever said there weren't a lot of young people interested in Flight. I don't study FSX so I don't know what the demographics are like for it.

 

What we're trying to say here is that FSX and the 737NGX isn't attracting a lot of younger people to flight simming. But Flight is. Sure, there may be a few younger people who got into the larger, more complicated planes, but that's not what attracted them to the hobby, and that's not what they started with.

 

And I've said all along that once you get them interested, many will go on to more serious flying and eventually may end up in the NGX.

 

Hook

 

If flight was attracting younger people then MS would not have shut down further development. The numbers were poor and they were not making money,

 

People are either interested in aviation or they are not.

 

For example I was on a RW flight on a really nice day saturday (kbos-kclt) Out of the rows I could see, I was the only person looking out the window. Even the young boys in the row in front of me were busy playing video games..

[HiFlyer 9,359]

Kids are kids. The kids that ram you are still experiencing aviation, and while they may be a pain now, who knows when and how the spark is lit. Those same people may be back later and older, ready to be more serious.

 

If flight was attracting younger people then MS would not have shut down further development. The numbers were poor and they were not making money,

 

I keep seeing these things. Your proof? Even anecdotal? You may well prove to be right in the end, but could you at least try to back it up, please.

[Simmo W 24]

I think we NEED to attract young pilots into our hobby if we are to survive. Not kids that want to ram you in a free P-51, but kids that have an interest in aviation. I was 12 or 13 when I first started flying a DOS version of MSFS, and its enriched my life more then anything in my young life. I have had some amazing jobs due to this, friends, and flights. Right now, there is a shortage of pilots in GA, like there is a shortage of sim pilots. We need to kick away the notion that you MUST be able to fly a 737NGX in order to be a true sim pilot, as each simmer has there own likes. I hoped that Flight would bring new blood into simming, and it did. Just not enough for MS to justify developing further.

 

I wonder in 20 years, will there be someone like me, that I inspired, as I was inspired some 20 years ago.

 

Kevin, I reckon there will always be a group of young fliers to inspire. Yes MS lost the plot and someone paid the price (including us), but tech is moving so fast, the sims available to the younger fliers will be incredible and of course inticing. But MS and ourselves shouldn't under-estimate the skills and minds of 11yo's. You'd be surprised at what they can operate nowadays. Heck, if I was 11 and could run a PMDG as well as today's computers, I probably would be a pilot now!

 

I'm enjoying going back to fsx, it's running very well on my old core i7 920 as you can see, here's my backyard, Lilydale, Australia, Orbx, with REX Overdrive. Love the Ants Airplanes ultralight!

 

 

[jcomm 5,930]

That makes two of us Simon... Yesterday it was a full afternoon at the puter, but I went to bed a lot more pacified than I felt the past days after the announcement regarding FLIGHT.

 

The strange thing is, and most in the line of Jeroen's "the human mind" post, that I am finding FSX, without absolutely no sort of tweaking other than using the default Sliders in the Settings, as I can't remeber having seen it run in the past. It was 2007 when I quited using any sims, including FSX, and I returned on December 2011, first with Condor, then trying the only available trial of Prepar3d, then FSX - I still had the disks before throwing it away to the trash can...

 

When MS FLIGHT was released I really couldn't remember how planes flew in FSX - including the Maule - nor did I ever had the smooth experience of FLIGHT. Then I upgraded to an i5 2500, 8GB RAM and Nvidia 450 GTX 1GB, but it never came to my mind trying FSX on it - I didn't have the disks too....

 

Yesterday, after one week trying to make my mind about embracing LM Prepar3d, DCS World or Xplane10, I endend up making the less expected decision - arrived home after lunch and downloaded through GFWL FSX Golden Edition, which I didn't even know included both Acceleration and the patches... Whow!

 

It was a great surprise, and I rushed downloading RealAir's SF260, and a few more good airplanes I had bought, long ago, for FSX. Then I tested the Maule in FSX, and found that, after all, it behaves as well - even better after the latest FLIGHT patch - than in FLIGHT, the only thing lacking being the proper lift/drag coeficients and a few more tweaks in the airfile to make it really bahave like FLIGHT's Maule - something that good add-ons for FSX like those from RealAir and A2A include! So, I am back flying over Lisbon, and Portugal as a whole, with lots of detail even using the default scenery, with cars on roads and traffic for the very first time in my FSX experience set to 20% without impact on the fps, etc.....

 

As many have pointed out, if not for other reasons, at least MS FLIGHT brought me back to this immersive hobby of flight simulation. I am glad I was able to cancel my xplane10 order (but I still consider getting it depending on the way it follows in the next months...), glad I didn't invested on DCS - I would most certainly get bored because military aviation is far from being what I like - and glad because I can have back the most important part of my investment in FSX.

 

I am also glad to have back MS FLIGHT installed, and I have some faint hope that some miracle happens.... One never knows.... At least the release of the next X? DLC....