Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

jcomm

Very accurate sideslip behavior in the AS-K21 now...

Recommended Posts

I have to report that probably because of the modifications to sidelsip introduced starting beta 6 last week, while testing the default As-K21 I was positively impressed with the overall modelling of sideslip that glider! I had previously reporter some inaccuracies, so, it's to know it is getting even better :-)

 

I often use that manouver in RL, and it behaves rather realistically now in x-plane10, including the sensation of running out of aileron towards the slip when full rudder deflection is used :-)

 

And....

 

 

- SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTHNESS, out of windshield and inside cockpit. Crystal clear instruments on the various models, gauges that move like silk...

 

- NO TWEAKING required!!! Use the Rendering Options Screen and that's it. Whow! After a short return to FSX when FLIGHT's fate was announce (although I keep starting FLIGHT everyday - I love it!!!) X-Plane's tweak-free installs, and rather easy UI is a relief!

 

- WEATHER effects, once airborne, are great too. I have some problems with the apparently excessive wind effects while on ground, taxiing and taking off..., other than that, it's VERY GOOD. I also get a nice thermal and specially slope wind effect for free :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

JComm,

Given your gliding experience can you give any tips on good gliders for X-Plane 9.70 and setups to mimick thermal/ ridge lift.

 

TIM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TIM,

 

I skipped x-plane v9, although it was offered to me just before I quited flightsimming in 2007 :-(, but I believe I have links to an interesting project. I'll try to find it and report back :-)

 

I used Condorsoaring, and used Silent Wings and even Soaring Flight Simulator (SFS3.0) before, for a more complete gliding environment, but I will find out soon how far we can go using the default thermals and ridge/slope lift in x-plane10. The first tests look interesting, but I doubt the thermals have a life cycle, and are influenced by many other factor, staring with the wind... Anyway, the default thermal and slope lift modelling in default x-plane are already better than what you get with FSX (soaring in FSX is really not realistic, staring with the FDE, even when the best products are used - including Aerosoft DiscusX. CumulusX! is an interesting "plugin", but it uses Simconnect to interact with the FM in a way that rises some questions, at least to me...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to report that probably because of the modifications to sidelsip introduced starting beta 6 last week, while testing the default As-K21 I was positively impressed with the overall modelling of sideslip that glider! I had previously reporter some inaccuracies, so, it's to know it is getting even better :-)

 

I often use that manouver in RL, and it behaves rather realistically now in x-plane10, including the sensation of running out of aileron towards the slip when full rudder deflection is used :-)

 

And....

 

 

- SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTHNESS, out of windshield and inside cockpit. Crystal clear instruments on the various models, gauges that move like silk...

 

- NO TWEAKING required!!! Use the Rendering Options Screen and that's it. Whow! After a short return to FSX when FLIGHT's fate was announce (although I keep starting FLIGHT everyday - I love it!!!) X-Plane's tweak-free installs, and rather easy UI is a relief!

 

- WEATHER effects, once airborne, are great too. I have some problems with the apparently excessive wind effects while on ground, taxiing and taking off..., other than that, it's VERY GOOD. I also get a nice thermal and specially slope wind effect for free :-)

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you're on LR's payroll! :huh: At any rate. Are you referring, instead, to forward slips? That's something I haven't seen modeled accurately. I'd be interested in seeing a video!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm beginning to wonder if you're on LR's payroll!

 

Nope, but I would like to.... :-) Too far from there here in Portugal though :-(

 

 

Are you referring, instead, to forward slips?

 

Make it fwd slip if it suits you, while aerodynamically, as you certainly know, is there any difference :-)? The only difference being the way you enter it, and the track/heading maintained compared to the starting ones....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a plane models a side slip wouldn't it also model a forward slip, too? Isn't the only difference whether it's used to drop in altitude quickly (forward) or a means of flying in a crosswind (side)? I assume the physics is the same but I could be wrong, not being a physicist or a sim programmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a plane models a side slip wouldn't it also model a forward slip, too? Isn't the only difference whether it's used to drop in altitude quickly (forward) or a means of flying in a crosswind (side)? I assume the physics is the same but I could be wrong, not being a physicist or a sim programmer.

 

Exactly! See my post above in reply to ZachLW....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, your post wasn't there when I started mine. Thanks.

 

Unfortunately, I have to fly with weather off a lot since just the other day light cloud layer caused the Archer to flip upside down and crash into the ground. Seriously, the weather needs to know there are plenty of clouds that are safe to fly through and many shouldn't be any bumpier than the surrounding air even in a small GA plane. Glad to hear a glider works, though, I'll have to check it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And since we're in this "slip Topic" I would had that indeed I am yet to find a sim that properly models the wrong ASI readings during such maneuvers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would you know, though? I'll need to check RealAir Scout and see how slipping changes the ASI -- I'd be surprised if that wasn't taken into account since it's the only plane I've seen where a spin will cause the ASI go to zero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a plane models a side slip wouldn't it also model a forward slip, too? Isn't the only difference whether it's used to drop in altitude quickly (forward) or a means of flying in a crosswind (side)? I assume the physics is the same but I could be wrong, not being a physicist or a sim programmer.

 

No.

Nope, but I would like to.... :-) Too far from there here in Portugal though :-(

 

 

 

 

Make it fwd slip if it suits you, while aerodynamically, as you certainly know, is there any difference :-)? The only difference being the way you enter it, and the track/heading maintained compared to the starting ones....

 

They're aerodynamically the same, but the end result and technique to accomplish each is very different (as you know). ie FSX planes can side slip to a degree when landing in a crosswind. Forward slips are absolutely out of the question, though. (save for Realair add-ons)

 

And since we're in this "slip Topic" I would had that indeed I am yet to find a sim that properly models the wrong ASI readings during such maneuvers...

ditto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

 

Hi Zach,

 

Forgive me if I'm being overly sensitive but I'd ask if you not reply with simple "Wrong" or "No" responses when I'm trying to have a nice dialog -- it comes off as abrasive and not too helpful. I'll assume you didn't mean it as such, though. Can you explain *why* this is the case in regards to forward vs side slipping being different? Is this something to do with the way FSX and XPX handle these situations or something more reality-based.

 

Forward slips are absolutely out of the question, though. (save for Realair add-ons)

 

So they're not impossible then ;) I haven't tried them in A2A's planes yet although while they do incredible engine simulations, I haven't been impressed with some of the stall behaviors.

 

I just tried some slipping in RA Scout but really I have no idea how you'd tell if your ASI is off. In reality, it will be slightly off depending on the side you're slipping but there's really no way to tell that I can see even in reality except by doing some timed runs over ground perhaps. Could testing your stall work? I'm not sure what effect being in a slip has on stalling a wing so I'm not sure that'd be a good test. Both you and Jcomm have more RL experience than I do on this so I'd love to hear if there's a way to check this. I love learning by experimenting and any excuse to practice slips I'll take :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can somebody explain to me Wrong ASI indication during the Forward Slip? Never heard of that before

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Zach,

 

Forgive me if I'm being overly sensitive but I'd ask if you not reply with simple "Wrong" or "No" responses when I'm trying to have a nice dialog -- it comes off as abrasive and not too helpful. I'll assume you didn't mean it as such, though. Can you explain *why* this is the case in regards to forward vs side slipping being different? Is this something to do with the way FSX and XPX handle these situations or something more reality-based.

 

 

 

So they're not impossible then ;) I haven't tried them in A2A's planes yet although while they do incredible engine simulations, I haven't been impressed with some of the stall behaviors.

 

I just tried some slipping in RA Scout but really I have no idea how you'd tell if your ASI is off. In reality, it will be slightly off depending on the side you're slipping but there's really no way to tell that I can see even in reality except by doing some timed runs over ground perhaps. Could testing your stall work? I'm not sure what effect being in a slip has on stalling a wing so I'm not sure that'd be a good test. Both you and Jcomm have more RL experience than I do on this so I'd love to hear if there's a way to check this. I love learning by experimenting and any excuse to practice slips I'll take :)

 

I thought I did? After the "no" I went on to explain myself a little. I apologize for not being more in-depth, but I typically try to avoid long winded replies and soapboxes. I'm in no way trying to be abrasive!

 

I'm not sure how to explain the difference between forward and side slips *in sim*. That is to say, I can't explain technically why I can side slip in crosswinds but can't forward slip to lose altitude quickly in sim. EDIT: Blame it on table based flight dynamics, of course.

 

 

Can somebody explain to me Wrong ASI indication during the Forward Slip? Never heard of that before

 

If modeled correctly, indicated airspeed will drop somewhat dramatically when doing an aggresive forward slip. As less ram air enters the pitot tube thanks to various factors, you'll see a lower indicated airspeed. Think: Calibration error (the same happens at different angles of attack)

 

UPDATE: In the Realair Duke, I do see an average of about a 20Kt decrease in IAS when forward slipping. Nice. I'm curious if this is something "more easily" achieved in X-Plane aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forward slips are absolutely out of the question, though. (save for Realair add-ons)

 

Ok, I confess I didn't recall, and didn't try when I bought & installed FSX Gold 2 weeks ago (after the "end" of FLIGHT...). I only have the SF260 from RealAir. I believe the A2A'a Cub should also be able to model it acceptably...(?). Anyway, the OT was started because, compared to my RL experience in the K21, the model (even being a default...) in x-plane10 performs rather acceptably, as a matter of fact, and although we can't compare, better than the Aerosoft DiscusX which I did test last week in FSX. It is particularly interesting to find that, at almost full rudder deflection, you "run out of aileron" to keep your "down wing" further down and, admiting a negligible wind component, correct your track.

 

If modeled correctly, indicated airspeed will drop somewhat dramatically when doing an aggresive forward slip. As less ram air enters the pitot tube thanks to various factors, you'll see a lower indicated airspeed. Think: Calibration error (the same happens at different angles of attack)

 

Exactly! In gliders, where we do use very aggressive forward slips, it can become scary :-)

 

When I started flying in 1980 my glider was a Blanik L-13, and I was tought to use forward stick during the forward slip if I didn't want to get a surprise... On modern plastic gliders we usually pull on the stick, in order not to gain speed during the descent, something that took me some time to understand (mechanically/mathematically) as not entitling me to get into a spin.....

 

See here, i.e., Alec: http://www.challengers101.com/Slips.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On modern plastic gliders we usually pull on the stick, in order not to gain speed during the descent, something that took me some time to understand (mechanically/mathematically) as not entitling me to get into a spin.....

 

Doubt I could get used to that! I'm glad to hear the flight model is doing what it should for you. I've yet to purchase XP10, as I just can't spare the cash or time at this juncture. Money%20Eyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, Zach, thanks. I was curious if it was a real life physics thing that there was something I wasn't seeing that a sideslip and forward slip were in fact different or if it's just how simulators behave. Control surface-wise they are the same but their end-effects are quite different so I could see either case being true.

 

The Scout loses ASI during a forward slip, too, but I couldn't tell if this was just due to attitude change or modeling the change of pressure.

 

@Jcomm That doesn't surprise me with the DiscusX. I haven't been impressed with the Aerosoft plane I've tried.

 

BTW, thanks for a fun discussion both of you. Great for learning and getting me more excited about starting my training!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doubt I could get used to that! I'm glad to hear the flight model is doing what it should for you. I've yet to purchase XP10, as I just can't spare the cash or time at this juncture.

 

I can perfectly understand...

 

It took me months to finally decide to buy x-plane10, with the great MS FLIGHT experience in between (the one that ended up bringing me back to the simulators hobby, and even get a joystick back, and planing to get back something in the line of my CH RCS I gave away in 2007...). I tested the demo to make sure it would run in my i5-2500, and it does, a lot smoother than FSX Gold (where I ended up spending an additional €29 :-( trying to get back to the MSFS World and re-use my previous investment in the ReaIair sf-260, leveld767, flight1 pc-12 and atr-72, and aerosoft discusX + CumulusX!)

 

Unfortunately I couldn't make it run properly on my system, and, I missed the weather effects in FLIGHT, the fluidity, etc... X-plane10 is providing me all of it, and when I think I was about to buy a lot of enhancements for FSX that would have cost a little fortune, and I have most of it by default in Xplane10, and with little work and using OSM2XP can get it even better, then the €69 were not a bad investment :-)

 

It's a small and dedicated team behind x-plane, and I also decided to support them (well, in my way, not really a great support...) - after all during all this years I have exchanged many email messages with Austin, asking for this or that for version9 and before that version8, and I always get an answer directly from him ASAP, sometimes explaining the how's and why's of this and that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your reply JComm. Interested in your views on all things gliding and how x-plane stacks up, aircraft and enviroment.

 

TIM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites