Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jcomm

Are you using the ATC in X-Plane10?

Recommended Posts

A small gust still does too much yawing and is far too sudden, never slowly building and dissipating as real winds do.

 

But I am almost sure the problem is in the weather engine, not in the flight dynamics...

 

X-plane10 translates variable wind fields in METAR strings to shear AND turbulence!!!! This is the problem...

 

I also find turbulnece modelled not very realistically... That's why after reading RW Weather I allways open the weather screen an ZERO the turbulence sliders...


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you know, it's really a shame this x-plane thing...i guess some of you are new to the flightsim world and don't realize this but...you know all the "crap-ola" that everyone has been complaining about in x-plane lately?....well this isn't news because it's the same exact "crap-ola" that we were all complaining about in x-plane 10-15 years ago when it was a much newer product!

 

VERY LITTLE has changed with the x-plane software (at least from a mainstream end user's POV)...the lack of a proper atc engine, bad weather engine, flight dynamics issues (especially handling in winds), poor GUI, difficult to find settings/missing options, etc etc etc...these are all things that 10 or 12 years ago I was hoping would mend with time and maturity in the development process.

 

But now, a decade or so later, to see/hear all these glaring issues are STILL present is really quite sobering to me. You see, to my way of thinking...if the x-plane designer had an interest in or WANTED to fix these issues then certainly by now they would have all been moot. Afterall, he has had a VERY long time to learn and grow with his engine and skills.

 

I think he needs to either sell the code at this point, take on a hefty partner, or open source it if we are ever to see really big things come of it. 3rd party interest from FSX addon devs is nice but it's not going to fix the inherit and serious flaws within this title that have kept it and will continue to keep it a non contender.

 

I want to be dead wrong...but I've been wanting to be dead wrong about it for more than a decade now :-(

 

 

PS - just so you know...I've purchased X-plane twice over the years in trying to support it's author and development. Versions 5 & 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I am almost sure the problem is in the weather engine, not in the flight dynamics...

 

X-plane10 translates variable wind fields in METAR strings to shear AND turbulence!!!! This is the problem...

 

I also find turbulnece modelled not very realistically... That's why after reading RW Weather I allways open the weather screen an ZERO the turbulence sliders...

 

The thing about that is, why does the flight sim genre habitually require you to do detailed work on the engine just to drive the car? It can get to the edge of drudgery, eventually.


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about that is, why does the flight sim genre habitually require you to do detailed work on the engine just to drive the car? It can get to the edge of drudgery, eventually.

 

:-(

 

Very true Devon ....


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

X Plane is constantly evolving. Example: HDR, jet exhaust, volumetric clouds and improvements/adjustments in the flight model. Code optimization. Extra features (some of which I have noted that I would like to see.) The constant work is necessary.

 

you know, it's really a shame this x-plane thing...i guess some of you are new to the flightsim world and don't realize this but...you know all the "crap-ola" that everyone has been complaining about in x-plane lately?....well this isn't news because it's the same exact "crap-ola" that we were all complaining about in x-plane 10-15 years ago when it was a much newer product!

 

VERY LITTLE has changed with the x-plane software (at least from a mainstream end user's POV)...the lack of a proper atc engine, bad weather engine, flight dynamics issues (especially handling in winds), poor GUI, difficult to find settings/missing options, etc etc etc...these are all things that 10 or 12 years ago I was hoping would mend with time and maturity in the development process.

 

But now, a decade or so later, to see/hear all these glaring issues are STILL present is really quite sobering to me. You see, to my way of thinking...if the x-plane designer had an interest in or WANTED to fix these issues then certainly by now they would have all been moot. Afterall, he has had a VERY long time to learn and grow with his engine and skills.

 

I think he needs to either sell the code at this point, take on a hefty partner, or open source it if we are ever to see really big things come of it. 3rd party interest from FSX addon devs is nice but it's not going to fix the inherit and serious flaws within this title that have kept it and will continue to keep it a non contender.

 

I want to be dead wrong...but I've been wanting to be dead wrong about it for more than a decade now :-(

 

 

PS - just so you know...I've purchased X-plane twice over the years in trying to support it's author and development. Versions 5 & 10.

 

This sounds like another anti-x plane post.

The GUI has been completely changed. As requested by the consumer.

I've made a post about turbulence and its effects on the flight models. And I can tell you, there is nothing wrong with the turbulence/weather as far as I can see. The problem is in the actual aircrafts flight model if it is not done correctly. I have proven this with screenshots.

You can bet your house and life savings that Austin will never sell his src code for X Plane nor will he take on a hefty partner.

The settings are all found on 1 page within X Plane. It doesn't really get much easier than that.

Controller and key settings are arranged as "basic" and "advanced". If you can navigate through a registered version of FSUIPC, then X Plane controller and key settings navigation will prove to be no problem.

The ATC engine has only just been introduced. I remember FS2002's (the first time the MSFS franchise introduced ATC) ATC engine was actually even worse than the current X Plane ATC engine. Give it time. I hear VoxATC are showing some interest in X Plane.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but some of your statements are incorrect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...if you think the ATC has only recently been implemented then either you havent been around long enough to know or you simply are not able to remember...but it's been in there for quite alot of years now...I have a copy of the v5 disk and atc is included as it was even before that. Actually my points aren't incorrect...they are more liken to conjecture unfortunately. The point is...there is alot of things that could have/should have been attended to many years ago. Now everyone's hoping to breathe new life into it because the long term future of Microsoft's platform is virtually non existant at this point in time. It's just a shame thats all im saying, because xplane has had so many development years ###### away IMO. Now that he's getting some attention maybe things will change for the better now...but it'll require some change in thought and vision on the Author's part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been around X Plane long enough to know it had ATC prior to V10. But it's dramatically improved and now includes AI.

I don't think anyone is hoping for anything really. It's a matter of personal choice. Larry Adamson has himself said that 3rd party developers can keep FSX alive for quite a while yet.

There are those of us who simply believe that XP is the better overall platform. And I expect nothing different from those who believe that their choice of platform is THEIR preferred choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been around X Plane long enough to know it had ATC prior to V10. But it's dramatically improved and now includes AI.

I don't think anyone is hoping for anything really. It's a matter of personal choice. Larry Adamson has himself said that 3rd party developers can keep FSX alive for quite a while yet.

There are those of us who simply believe that XP is the better overall platform. And I expect nothing different from those who believe that their choice of platform is THEIR preferred choice.

 

But, I don't yet. Perhaps some day....

In the meantime, there is still too much good development for FSX, to dismiss it.

 

L.Adamson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But, I don't yet. Perhaps some day....

In the meantime, there is still too much good development for FSX, to dismiss it.

 

L.Adamson

 

 

-sigh-

Larry, it ISN'T about YOU and what YOU prefer.

Just when I start developing respect for you and some of your thoughts and opinions, along with letting bygones be bygones, you go and shoot it all down with a post like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-sigh-

Larry, it ISN'T about YOU and what YOU prefer.

Just when I start developing respect for you and some of your thoughts and opinions, along with letting bygones be bygones, you go and shoot it all down with a post like that.

 

Then you're still "reading" it, much too strongly. It's not that big of a deal. I suppose I'll just temper Jcomms enthusiasm a bit. In other words, I'm not totally moving away from the other brand. As I said, the other brand is still getting some good addons too. It's not dead, and unsupported. And yes, I'll still want the DC-3..........seriously.

 

L.Adamson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose I'll just temper Jcomms enthusiasm a bit.

 

:-) Impossible.... I'm X-planized... fully!!!! But! I would be the last person to say to anyone - give up on FSX, or P3D! If you, as a RL pilot, feel that FSX is good, then I have to accept it certainly is good! And I acknowledge many positive aspects of using that platform, although I have finally learned that X-Plane (10) is the best option for me because:

 

- I haven't invested that much in FSX (just a few add-ons)

- X-Plane10 offers me good environment and a nice glider model to fly around in places I know from RL without having to spend more money in glider or weather tweaking/injector add-ons

- Having just a couple of times had the chance to get my hands on an helicopter ( A Schweizer 300 and an R-44 ), I memorized it for the rest of my life, and back then I was using fs9 and DODOSim 206, then migrated to FSX, and finally experimented the feel of X-Plane9, and now X-Plane10 - it simply can't be compared... It's a LOT more what I recall having experienced...

- Last, but certainly not least, there is a sensation when flying, fluidly, in X-Plane10 with the immersive environment that makes me really like this sim... Of course the excellent add-ons I have for it also helped a lot, but some of the default aircraft are already very nice!


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this thread was about the X-Plane ATC???

 

My answer to that is, I'm trying to use it, but it won't let me. I wasn't able to finalize a single flight with ATC (esp. approach is a pain), often I'm stuck even before I get a clearance for take-off. If I turn on some AI it's even worse, AIs have go arounds all the time while I'm stuck with "hold short...", taxiing of AI is often more than crazy...etc.

It's for sure a complex system/task but as it is now it's simply superfluous. And I doubt that this is something that will be fixed anytime soon. It's a pity.

 

Flo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Confirmed... Definitely ATC is not THE FEATURE in X-Plane10... I have also given up playing around with it...

I've made a few flights, but I just filled the FPL already airborne - those taxi instruction drived me NUTS!

 

My oppinion:

 

- Either address it in a future patch or....

- Open the code for 3pd to get in and offer ATC plugins....

 

[EDIT:]

Even without a major overhaul I believe it could get better if:

- Taxi instructions were made even more basic, but at least not so weird like what I get for instance at LPPT, where I'm constantly told to taxy and backtrack through the rws... A simple "taxi to and hold rw ..." leaving the path to the pilot's discretion while a better "afcad" is not available fo X-Plane10...

- A less impetuous controller, constantly repeating the level and heading changes while you're progressing in your flight and trying to comply... Sometimes it takes a few more seconds... The guy really irritates me the way it is now...

- Vectoring for IFR approaches, at least when weather is IMC... Having an IAF for the rws wold be great...

 

I actually like it better in X-Plane10 when I do not get constant handing of communications as I cross aerodromes bellow me while cruising and being handled by some Center...


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point, I'd be happy with just Flight Following so you can get chatter, but not the constant repetition of the instruction given only seconds before. More voices would be nice too.


"No matter how eloquent you are or how solidly and firm you've built your case, you will never win in an argument with an idiot, for he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe others have a different priority list for flying.

 

1- Operating the aircraft.

2- Communication.

 

Looking back throught the beta releases, I don't recall seeing much work on the ATC engine. I'd say the X-Plane ATC engine needs some developer time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...