737NGX will not climb or achieve FMC settings

[Spin737 102]

What are you flying (not doubting you - just interested)? I know my friend who flies 757's has had to step out of Guyana before but I guess he doesn't do it all that often. But that's a 75, not one of the heavies. But for a 737 I would be surprised to hear it happens very frequently, but I'm not a 73 captain :smile:.

 

That all said, my point though was that there's no way temperature (if they are even close to realistic) would cause the 737 to perform like that down that low in Britain. I'm wondering if maybe a door got left open or something like that. Not likely though. I've done that before and it was 10K before I started to get the aural warning and it didn't take me all that long to get there. Sounds like it might be a gremlin of some kind.

It was a 737. I think it was an -800. I think it was just very warm at altitude, since we weren't too heavy. 150k or so, for takeoff, IIRC.

 

It's probably the weather engine he's working with, not a realistic problem.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Oh really! Interesting. I've heard the 800's have a bit less giddy-up than the 700 relatively speaking (the charts say they need quite a bit more runway). Is that the case? Also, do you know what the short field kit consists of for the newer 737's? I know they are an option for the 600 and 700, but heard they are standard on the 900ER's.

[Spin737 102]

I've heard the 800's have a bit less giddy-up than the 700 relatively speaking (the charts say they need quite a bit more runway).

-700 can usually go up to FL400 or FL410 directly. Yesterday from KONT the optimum was FL398 passing about 10,000, so we went straight up.

 

The -800 and -900 don't do that well. FL370 or FL380 for a final and you can go up for a 2-2.5 hour flight. Any longer and you might be too heavy with fuel to go up without a step. They don't go past FL390 very often in my experience.

 

RE:SFP, I believe they are standard on the ER, but I don't know if that is any different from the -800SFP. Companies can select what parts of the SFP they want, too.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Interesting! Still the "little" 737 has really grown, eh?

 

What makes up the SFP, do you know? Is it a wing mod or engine mod?

[Fabo 213]

Mostly aerodynamics - some wing optimization, different flap schedule regarding LE devices, then you have bigger ground spoiler deployment angle, and a two-position tailskid.

 

I suppose an airline will also want the 27K bump option and carbon brakes, if they need SFP.

[freded 3]

Hello Guys,

 

Wow! I seem to have started a very interesting and informative discussion between people who appear to know what they're talking about. Am I right to conclude that 'BeaverDriver' and 'Spin737' are real-world commercial aviation pilots? I've flown in a few DHC2 Beavers (and DHC3 Turbo Otters), sitting in the 'FO's' seat as a paying passenger, but don't even have a PPL. :-(

 

To return to my problem ;-), I don't use FSINN - in fact I'd never heard of it!

Googling it shows that it's similar to SquawkBox and used to communicate with VATSIM. Never tried that.

 

I do have REX2 installed on this machine but am not activating it for the PMDG 737NGX, as it eats into my few remaining frame rates. So the weather is set from the FSX World/Weather options.

 

As for leaving a door open, I'll have to do a proper checklist in future! I have to say that hadn't occurred to me as a possible cause but it's easy enough to open doors inadvertently with Shift-E...

 

Re "I forget how the tutorial is written in terms of settings, but the flight is supposed to be flown with the values pounds, right? If so, and the plane is configured to expect KG values, it will assume that it's very much over weight and act oddly..." (by scandinavian13). Yes, pounds are the default tutorial settings but it does tell you how to convert to Kgs if you need/want to. I didn't.

 

"SFP" - Short Field Program?

 

I'm about to start the Tut 1 flight again, so will report back on what happens this time!

 

Mark

[freded 3]

I have found a problem (whether it's THE problem is a different matter!).

 

Here are the values I get by closely following Tut 1.

 

In 'FS ACTIONS':-

 

FUEL set to: 1/3

PAYLOAD to: FULL

CARGO to: 1500 FWD & AFT

 

 

The above gives on 'FUEL':-

 

TOTAL LBS: 15198

TOTAL LEVEL: 33.0%

TANK 1: 7599

TANK 2: 7599

CENTER TANK: 0

GW: 167.9/MTW 174.7

ZFW: 121.8/CG: 19.1%

 

 

On PERF INIT:-

 

GW/CRZ CG: 168.1/19.1%

PLAN/FUEL: -/46.3

ZFW: 121.8

RESERVES: 5.0

TRIP/CRUISE ALT: FL240/FL250

 

 

BUT - Screenshot of PERF INIT in Tut 1 shows:-

 

GW/CRZ CG: 138.0/25.7%

PLAN/FUEL: -/15.3

ZFW: 122.7

RESERVES: 5.0

TRIP/CRUISE ALT: FL301/FL250

 

So there is a discrepancy between the GW/CRZ CG & PLAN/FUEL values for the PERF INIT that I get and the values shown in Tut 1.

 

Is this enough to prevent FMC selected speed and Altitude from being followed?

 

Mark

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Am I right to conclude that 'BeaverDriver' and 'Spin737' are real-world commercial aviation pilots? I've flown in a few DHC2 Beavers (and DHC3 Turbo Otters), sitting in the 'FO's' seat as a paying passenger,

 

You would be correct sir. However, my time is almost all in 185's, Beavers and Otters (all on floats or skis - not sure what a wheel actually looks like :lol:). In this instance, I'd be taking what 'Spin737' is saying over my comments. While the effects of density altitude are more pronounced on the machines I flew (especially the DH products - very high lift wing but no speed, and piston pounders), it wasn't very often I couldn't get out of a lake if it was long enough, and climb to a reasonable altitude. The 737 is waaaaay more capable of that than any of the machines I flew so that's why I don't think it's weather related. My friend who flies 757's (see below) has come out of Guyana (did I already mention this?) in a 57 with the temp +33C and almost no wind and not that long a runway and still got to altitude without too much grief, so that too makes me think the 737 shouldn't be having a problem like you are due to weather. Now, 'Spin737's' RW experience is far more relevant to this discussion and he does have experience on type (obviously) so I'd be listening to him over me as I say in this situation.

 

"SPF" does refer to the Short Field kit for the 737 NG's, but I'm not sure what the "P" refers to. My jumpseat time with the 737 was all on 200's mostly with gravel kits installed which was just about all we saw up north (along with 727-100's and the odd 200, again with gravel kits) and they were almost by definition, "short field capable" (they used to fly 737-200's into Dutch Harbor, Alaska with a 3990 ft runway, albeit at a reduced load, so that machine can work miracles for its class). This stuff with the NG is all fairly new to me, although a good friend of my is a 757/767 (he's co-rated) driver so he gives me a lot of info on things like the FMC.

 

I don't think the difference you see in the screenie is anything that should cause the problem. Your weights are very light either way. If the FMC is programmed for FL300 vs. 250, the airplane will still try to get there the same. There's no chance you had SPEED selected or LVL CHNG instead of just VNAV and LNAV is there? I think you said you double checked that. Insofar as the door being open, that's a bit of a shot in the dark by me and I doubt it would cause your issue either now that I think about it. Have you reflown the flight more than once and do you get the same issue each time? If not, it was probably just something overlooked (easy to do, even with a full checklist - I know :rolleyes: ). If it's repeatable, somehow try to get a few screenies on departure of as much of the panel as possible so we can see. We're kind of going blind on this. In a 172 that's a little easier than in this machine :smile:.

[Fabo 213]

"SPF" does refer to the Short Field kit for the 737 NG's, but I'm not sure what the "P" refers to.

 

I think it went either as "Short Field Package" or "Short Field Performance" as in SFP Package. Not sure though.

 

Anyway regarding OPs problem, I would really need to see what was going on there. This is why I like when an add-on has DFDR implemented, as an example Aerosofts Adv. Airbus is going to have what looks like a great one. An idea for future PMDG products, maybe?

[fencer 16]

I had to step a few days ago coming out of KPHX to KSEA. Too heavy for our filed FL380, so we stopped at FL360 for a bit. Happens on the Hawaii flights, too, quite often.

 

It's not every flight, but it's not highly unusual, either.

 

Hi Matt,

I thought you were flying for a far east company (but I have been away from this forum for a while)

Cheers,

Bruno

[Guest BeaverDriver]

He is. Far East of China :rofl: (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

@Peter (Fabo) - Yes, that would be it. Short Field Package. Thanks.

 

By the by (OT)-I noticed you are using Illustrator (from the ...Liveries thread). I too am just getting into that. Looks like it would open up a lot of doors for painting, eh? Good on ya for that :smile:

[Spin737 102]

 

 

Hi Matt,

I thought you were flying for a far east company (but I have been away from this forum for a while)

Cheers,

Bruno

Yep. I was in Asia for 1.5 years while I was furloughed from my US carrier. Now I'm back in the States.

[freded 3]

Hello Glenn,

 

So I guessed right - you do fly Beavers & Otters. :smile: Which part of Canada do you fly in? I'm situated on Vancouver Island, a few miles SE of Parksville, and the Beavers & Otters I mentioned are flown by Harbour Air. We use them, in preference to BC Ferries, for getting to Vancouver. And, of course, they're on floats and fly just a few hundred feet above the Georgia Straits - so don't have any problems with gaining height. ^_^

 

You said: "There's no chance you had SPEED selected or LVL CHNG instead of just VNAV and LNAV is there? I think you said you double checked that." Well, I definitely had VNAV & LNAV selected on takeoff (and V1 was active) but, when I couldn't achieve the FMC's speed and height for the first section, I tried going to LVL CHG and V/S for a bit. The 737 started to climb but speed fell off with A/T Armed, so I turned A/T off and pushed the throttles to max: No speed increase, even with N1 showing over 90%.

 

That's when I gave up and wrote my first posting! At present, due to domestic duties :(, I haven't got further than initializing the FMC. When I have time, I'll send some screenies to show the problem - assuming it happens again...

 

Mark

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Yeah, it might have just been something weird going on and won't happen again Mark. Good luck with that, but definitely post back if you run into it again.

 

I flew out east in Ontario and the NWT/NU area mostly. I'm retired from flying now (flew 17 years though, all in the bush), and am an Avionics Tech currently. Miss the flying most days, but not all days :wink:. Yeah, we usually didn't do much climbing either. Five hundred agl was typical most days. Takes too long for Beavers to get much higher when loaded. One eighty fives were a bit better that way. Lots of fun :smile:.

[freded 3]

Well, it did it again.

 

Reached 2280 ft & 198 KIAS and then failed to climb any more to the 5000 ft set by FMC or increase speed to 230 KIAS.

 

I'll try to include some screenies of the MCP and FMC, which will illusrate the configuration when I paused the flight...

 

(I pasted in a couple of screenies but when I hit 'Post' I get an error saying "Your post is too short" !!

 

Tried making screenies half size (totalling 255760 bytes) but same error. Is there some arcane way of adding images on this site?)

 

 

Two other points I noticed when setting up:-

 

1) On the N! LIMIT page, there is NO option for selecting TO-2 - just 26K/TO, 24K/TO-1 & 27K BUMP/TO-B. I chose TO-1.

 

2) Setting the BARO to hectopascals (as suggested for Europe in Tut 1), I was able to change the unitss on the PFD but, on looking for the button on the Integrated Standby Flight Display (ISFD), I discovered that the gauge shown in Tut 1 differs from the one on my panel and has NO Hg/hpa button. You can what my panel has for an ISFD from the screenie (just right of the Captain's ND).

 

Perhaps I need to do a complete uninstall/re-install of the aircraft?

 

Hope this all helps with diagnosis.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

 

Try one screenie at a time...

 

No. Didn't work. Same error.

 

Mark