PMDG Releases Statement Regarding EULAs for P3D

[Fabo 213]

Uhm, guys? I dont want to go telling you how to run forums, but I am not sure you want to discuss it here, in public forum.

 

 

That "understanding" is a huge assumption that does not seem to be supported by either the facts or the EULA agreements for either product.

 

I agree that users who would use P3D and/or PMDG are violating EULA. Just saying that those companies do not seem to be actively working against such use. Then again, I can not see into what is being done internally or externally, if done discreetly, and I am not even a P3D user.

I suppose that should be all I should have said, even if that. Maybe deleting whole discussion from my first post downis the thing to do.

[ZachLW 37]

Uhm, guys? I dont want to go telling you how to run forums, but I am not sure you want to discuss it here, in public forum.

 

 

 

 

I agree that users who would use P3D and/or PMDG are violating EULA. Just saying that those companies do not seem to be actively working against such use. Then again, I can not see into what is being done internally or externally, if done discreetly, and I am not even a P3D user.

I suppose that should be all I should have said, even if that. Maybe deleting whole discussion from my first post downis the thing to do.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that Tom hasn't shared anything he isn't at liberty to share.

 

I'm interested as to how this will pan out. Not so much for the current iteration of P3D, but later updates. Good luck, infant simulator. You have potential.

[Richard McDonald Woods 168]

It is inevitable, perhaps, that PMDG product users get frustrated by the apparent abandonment of the FSX product by Microsoft. Thus some are looking to using Prepar3D as an alternative. However, Lockhead Martin have said nothing about any plans to develop their software in a direction that may satisfy future PMDG users. I feel that PMDG have been acting to protect those using Prepar3D as much as they can. For this, I think we should all be immensely grateful.

 

I believe that Microsoft has never had any intention of abandoning the further development of FSX. Although not privvy to any of Microsoft's development plans, the amount of money invested by them in developing SimConnect, leads me to thinking that the future of FSX is far from ended. It has taken several years of patient waiting by us to see what will happen to FSX.

 

Over recent years there have been many software developments industry-wide that could be exploited by Microsoft (or their contractors?) to make a fantastic step forward for FSX, such as the development of new gound imaging techniques, ocean floor mapping, space modelling, weather mapping and the Next Generation Navigation Systems. With care, many existing simulators could make fantastic use of these facilities to offer us a whole new and advanced simulation environment.

 

There is currently no way that Prepar3D can be an assured path forward for the hobby simulator user, so I shall certainly be sticking by FSX so as to be able to take advantage of any new Microsoft product that may be realised. I hope that current PMDG users who have decided to base their future on Prepar3D do not have to waste a lot of money to get back onto an eventual Microsoft-based simulation environment.

 

Food for thought?

[ctec1 6]

There is also currently no way that FSX can be an assured path forward for the hobby sim user. P3D is currently being developed, FSX is not. I have no problem sending LM 50 bucks to support their efforts. If LM pulls the plug on P3D tomorrow I wont loose any sleep over it. I support it cause its making an attempt to improve things.

 

As far as addons go, anything that works with P3D is a bonus. I'm not expecting any to work in P3D. In fact as it moves forward I would expect fewer addons to work. Thats a price I expect to pay for the improvements being made.

 

If MS were to announce further developement of FSX or a new sim , I'd back them also. I own Flight and I had fun with it although its no FSX.

 

And I have my own EULA that I adhere to, it reads something like this... "I purchase addon, I use addon".

[Kosta 122]

I have no problem sending LM 50 bucks to support their efforts. If LM pulls the plug on P3D tomorrow I wont loose any sleep over it. I support it cause its making an attempt to improve things.

 

Exactly my opinion.

[Clutch Cargo 384]

Feel the same way. I mean as we progressed through MSFS versions some add-ons became obsolete or sorta "broke" with new code. P3D v2 could happen as well. One can only truly protect their investment if you continue to use the same FS through the years.

 

I woulda thought the issue of PMDG would have been more along the lines between PMDG and Boeing. Thinking their could be some conflict moving an entertainment retail product into a commercial platform.

 

Not sure what is more interesting to read... the saga between PMDG and LM or the one between Tom and Srdan! :wink:

[ahuimanu 50]

Food for thought?

 

Richard, your positivity is admirable, and the rationality driving your argument is intriguing. However, it will take a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time for me to believe that Microsoft will ever again make a decision that is in the best interests of simmers. I won't hold my breath for them. That they allowed Joshua Howard to both "Hindenberg" and "Titanic" the legacy of our Flight Simulator shows a high degree of disregard. I can echo this as being burned time and time again by this company as a developer...

 

* XNA is the way forward for managed Direct X development... no, it's not, it's for consoles... no, it's not, it's for our phone... nah, nevermind, XNA is dead

* Silverlight is our Flash replacement, get onboard... nah, it's important in WPF... nah, Metro-style apps are the way to go

* DirectX is a one-stop shop for all your game development needs... no, it's not, you don't need that networking code, find your own... you don't need a seperate SDK, this stuff is just a part of Windows (8), just use that.

* We're totally into the mobile space, here's our tools... nah, we don't support Windows Mobile/CE anymore, here's our new toy

 

That's just what I can garner off the top of my head. They are a rudderless entity and SimConnect is far from their crowning software engineering achievement in FSX from where I stand. I would actually vote for the round-earth model and the sheer scale of the sim's data and rendering approach. But I too am not privvy to any more than I could glean from the wonderful information that the ACES team was always willing to share with us. For instance, the talented Adam Szofran shared his techniques on developing the round-earth model and other rendering and data management strategies in this talk/presentation: http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/developers/Pages/GlobalTerrain.aspx

 

No, I think the chances of Microsoft backing anything resembling FSX in the future are slim and I surely will not sit around and wait for them. It is unfortunate that things are cut and dried with LM. However, they want the "simmer's" FSX business and nearly all of the evidence since the opening of P3D points to this. First and foremost, the emergence of the academic version as well as a drastic reduction in price for the full "retail" version (notice it doesn't say pro).

 

This reminds we of eSimGames' Steel Beasts Professional Personal Edition or Bohemia Interactive's Virtual Battle Space software titles. They are pricing these things for the big-boy market, but each can be obtained if you want them.

 

I am fine with that as clearly, the "I wanna fire up flight simulator to fiddle-faddle around with rings in the sky and earn points for finding treasures" did not pan out. There must have been market reasons for this (among many).

 

Anyhow. I had Richard's attitude whilst awaiting flight and made several now-embarrassing prognostications. I had the "long investment" rationale then as I awaited Flight. I couldn't even change my tune when the writing was on the wall: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3393516/Interesting_comments_on_MS_Fli.html

 

What a massive mistake in judgment on my part.

 

So, for me at least, Microsoft will NEVER AGAIN be a serious or viable option for flight simulation. I could be wrong, perhaps we will all hold on to FSX for 10 years and MS will do an about face. While it remains to be seen, there is an indication that this could be the case with the new Sim City due out in 2013 which will, 10 years later, resume the correct path for that software legacy last seen in Sim City 4.

 

In Microsoft's case, I have my doubts. In any case, I won't hold my breath.

 

If you are simming to enjoy a high-fidelity flying experience where one can simulate an experience in a manner that is similar to reality, I can't see a better option than Prepar3d right now.

 

Again I could be wrong. Sim City Societies stood as a terrible end to the Sim City legacy (one almost as old as Flight Simulator's). However, EA, just may bring it back.

 

So on that note, perhaps you are on to something Richard. I'll be investing in birds-in-hand until then.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Update next week, that's all I care about.

[Ben Cap 89]

Update next week, that's all I care about.

 

I doubt that it will be good news...

 

My prediction: LM and PMDG tighten efforts to restrict EULA violations and PMDG begin to use a patching system for their products that dis-allows usage in P3D.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

I doubt that it will be good news...

 

My prediction: LM and PMDG tighten efforts to restrict EULA violations and PMDG begin to use a patching system for their products that dis-allows usage in P3D.

Well my thoughts included that they were talking about a new update next week, and, since this came up, they will take about their conversations with Lockheed Martin.

[Kosta 122]

In any case, I don't want to be as pessimistic as Ben. Always hope for the best.

[StarTux 2]

Taking the positive approach there is always the possibility of an 'enthusiast' edition being released, just needs to have the license worded right and that is what we're talking about in regards to each 'edition'.

 

As for Microsoft, the only way I can foresee a Flightsim from them is to see Flight re-launched as an X-box title and that wouldn't be a bad thing.

[mgh 89]

The elephant in the room is the underlying Microsoft - Lockheed Martin agreement

 

. If, as is believed, that agreement prevents P3D's use for personal/consumer entertainment., then it will have to be re-negotiated to allow an "enthusiast" version. That implies a willingness on both LM's and MS's parts. Thats raises the question what's really in it for either of them - a few more licence sales by LM and a perecentage of those for MS?

[FSMP 95]

My Prediction:-

 

If PMDG and LM are actually talking, I strongly suspect it is to:

 

(1) Establish a way from PMDG to be able to determine what Licence version P3D is operating under.

Once PMDG can control which consumer/commercial licenses of it's product, can and cannot be installed on educational/commercial licensed version of P3D, then there may be some progress.

 

(2) Deal with any issues cause by "progamming outide the box/SDK --(ie hacking into a Fixed FSX), that would be an issue with P3D, that is frequently being updated.

 

 

But, at the end of the day, it's all about the almghty dollar, and the fear of law suites (sigh)

It's a shame to see that Flight Sim has gone this way ... but then, so have so may other good things in life.

[Ben Cap 89]

But, at the end of the day, it's all about the almghty dollar, and the fear of law suites (sigh)

 

I personally think over-litigation has destroyed ambition among small developers and small companies.

 

 

It's a shame to see that Flight Sim has gone this way ... but then, so have so may other good things in life.

 

At least LM took the intiative to continue the development of the model T! :biggrin: