An Interview with Lockheed Martin - P3D

[TheGrunt 44]

Nice interview!

 

Can't wait 2013 and P3D V2.0 release...

[Brittfrog 3]

A good interview that does give some idea of where LM are going, However the interviewer didnt ask the obvious question that is on everyones lips when Martile answered " What it can’t do is support just-for-fun simming"

 

My question is: Is this because of an agreement/contract with M.S. so that M.S. can in the future produce a sim for entertainment purposes (possibly based on the LM project) or is this a decision taken by LM themselves as they have no interest in supplying a product to the public in general?

[WR269 367]

Why would you believe for a moment that any entity would share such commercial information???

 

If they could share it they would have done so when the time was right. They chose not to expand on it and it is their right.

 

There is more than enough information in the interview to understand development path and current status.

[Kosta 122]

However the interviewer didnt ask the obvious question that is on everyones lips when Martile answered " What it can’t do is support just-for-fun simming"

 

 

I just saw MiB3 yesterday (very nice movie btw), there is a quote I remembered from it: don't ask a question that you don't want to know the answer of.

[RoboRay 126]

Or, as an interviewer, "don't ask a question you already know the interviewee is not permitted to answer," especially if you want them to be receptive to future interview requests.

[Eric Tomlin 10]

To AVSIM,

 

Thank you so very much for taking the initiative for the interview. To Lockheed Martin- Thank you so very much for not only granting the interview, but for being so patient over the past couple of years and most of all, for providing an academic license in addition to the higher level licenses.

[XPX64man 130]

You didn’t get the point. Prepar3D is licensed as a learning and training tool. FS1 -> FSX were for “entertainment purposes only” (Microsoft EULA).

 

It means that all we have learned using FS (me 25+ years) can now be enhanced if I get prepar3D.

It also means that our hobby won’t end with FSX; there is a light in the horizon

 

I think the point is that most everyone that is already using FSX has under estimated its value as a training tool. I have always been bothered by those who called FSX, FS9 and X-Plane, games. They are not games, they are "training/educational tools".

Mario Bros. is a game. Mujong Tiles is a game.

I know that developers have in their EULAs not to use their software as training tools, but I think they should specify that it should not be used as training tools for real world aircraft of any type. Simmers can be "training" to fly on VATSIM or other online venues, or just can be using the software as a training tool to educate themselves on better understanding of aviation and not specifically using it to become pilots or develop real pilot skills.

I do not have to be training to be a real pilot to use a simulation training tool for educational purposes. I could just be interested in aviation and want to learn more about it. That is why I buy simulated airliners and GA aircraft from companies like PMDG and Carenado who are very accurate in their products.

[Eric Tomlin 10]

Way back years ago during my Private/Commercial/Instrument Pilot Ground schools (working on my A.S. Degree in Aviation) our main instructor was a retired USN pilot that would not listen to anything other the sound of his own voice. This was back in 1999-2001 and FS98 was king. At the same time, Prof. Carpenter had his coveted Elite Flight Simulator. He even brought it to class a few times and displayed it up on the overhead to show us all how to execute various maneuvers, etc. Anyhow, I tried to explain to him how valuable MSFS 98 was. "No, no No! Dont tell me about Microsoft Flight Simulator. That is a game. A GAME! On the other hand, my Elite simulator has different aircraft with all the right instruments and navaids and a few hundred airports and it even has the ability to go back and play your flight back to watch how well you performed!"

 

Yeah. I just sat there and kept my mouth shut. What a tool. I bet he would've argued with God if He showed him that MSFS had all the same features...but was simply sold as a game.

[n4gix 4,947]

Eric, apparently your instructor was not aware that the U.S. Navy had been using FS98 at Corpus Christi NAS for several years already... :LMAO:

 

One of my best friends is a retired corporate pilot (40+ thousand hours logged), who quite literally has every possible certification and endorsement it's possible for any pilot to have...

 

Unfortunately, he goes into complete hysterics if I even breathe the words "flight simulator" in his direction. Since "flight simulation development" is my livelihood, perhaps that's why he hasn't invited me to lunch for the past fifteen years... :blush:

[greggerm 312]

I have always been bothered by those who called FSX, FS9 and X-Plane, games. They are not games, they are "training/educational tools".

 

It's not one or the other. They can be games.... and they can be training/educational tools... they can both at the same time - educational games! It's all in how you use them and what you want to do that day.

 

I've used MSFS as a pure distraction from daily life to zip through some mountain valleys in an F-18... I've used MSFS as a procedural simulator to walk through some of the concepts my flight instructor was passing along when I was taking lessons... I've used MSFS to pre-fly cross country flights to see if the photo scenery lends any good landmarks to watch for... I've used MSFS to "fun"-fly cross country flights to places I'd never go in airplanes I could never really fly...

 

There's nothing wrong with being entertained while you are being educated or trained. Only you can decide for yourself whether you fit into the moral compass of Lockheed's EULA language.

[Eric Tomlin 10]

Eric, apparently your instructor was not aware that the U.S. Navy had been using FS98 at Corpus Christi NAS for several years already... :LMAO:

 

One of my best friends is a retired corporate pilot (40+ thousand hours logged), who quite literally has every possible certification and endorsement it's possible for any pilot to have...

 

Unfortunately, he goes into complete hysterics if I even breathe the words "flight simulator" in his direction. Since "flight simulation development" is my livelihood, perhaps that's why he hasn't invited me to lunch for the past fifteen years... :blush:

 

Yes! I tried to tell him that. He wanted to hear nothing of the sort. I liked the guy, but he always ticked me off when this bit came up. Maybe he was too old to even hear what I was saying...he actually had experience navigating a Connie out over open ocean (Before he became a P-3 captain) using a sextant.

[XPX64man 130]

A

It's not one or the other. They can be games.... and they can be training/educational tools... they can both at the same time - educational games! It's all in how you use them and what you want to do that day.

 

I've used MSFS as a pure distraction from daily life to zip through some mountain valleys in an F-18... I've used MSFS as a procedural simulator to walk through some of the concepts my flight instructor was passing along when I was taking lessons... I've used MSFS to pre-fly cross country flights to see if the photo scenery lends any good landmarks to watch for... I've used MSFS to "fun"-fly cross country flights to places I'd never go in airplanes I could never really fly...

 

There's nothing wrong with being entertained while you are being educated or trained. Only you can decide for yourself whether you fit into the moral compass of Lockheed's EULA language.

 

You are right, there is nothing wrong with being entertained while you train or become educated, but a "game" by definition is a competitive sport played by a set of rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck (dictionary.com).

Without "Missions" flight simulator or P3D does not fall under that category in any sense. It is, and always has been, a very enjoyable training and educational tooI. It is not unusual to mix enjoyable entertainment with education and training. On the contrary, it is a proven and most effective way to learn.

PMDG and other high end simulation developers should specify in their EULAs that their software can not be used as training tools for real world operations of specific aircraft, but can be used only as an overall educational tool for gaining knowledge into aviation as a whole. This should be acceptable to P3D.

[JasonHarris 96]

I also think that 'missions' would be very valuable for training.

 

For sure, in the context of FSX they were primarily used for entertainment but imagine if your flight school that was running a small training simulator had a number of possible emergency situations programmed as missions and you could take them with you.

 

I think missions provide an excellent platform for specific training scenarios by themselves.

[vgbaron 3,486]

Entertainment and learning are not on opposite ends of the spectrum. Most successful teaching environments TRY to make it an enjoyable experience - it enhances the learning experience. We keep coming back to the same old saw - the interpretation of "entertainment". This excellent interview ( thank you Avsim and LM) just reinforces the semantic issue. I read it simply - as long as P3D "CAN" be used in a learning/training environment - anything is acceptable. Do you not think that a multi million $ simulator doesn't have "missions" or exercises like flying through loops or gates to promote hand eye coordination? It appears to me that some in our community are trying to force a tacit statement from LM to the fact that P3D CAN be used for entertainment. They, instead are saying it CAN be used for training which does not say it can NOT be used for entertainment. They HAVE stated, however, that it will not be marketed to nor distributed through retail entertainment channels. I do not find that diificult to understand nor do I find any hidden meaning.

 

To me, it is a great boon for the flightsim community and should simply be embraced as such.

 

Any speculation of what may happen down the road, is purely that, speculation. I wonder how many "speculated" that MS would fire Aces, dump FSX and cancel Flight ( altho the last seemed a sure bet).

 

I am enjoying both FSX AND P3D and am having fun doing it.

 

Vic

[Noel 4,483]

Am I able to purchase & use the Professional version if I intend to become a private pilot, but have not yet attended an FFA approved school? If the answer is yes, would I be restricted in purchasing/installing various 3rd party add ons that excluded military/weapons application since that would not be covered under weapons EULA?

 

Thank you,

 

Noel Phares