Ivy Bridge Pictorial De-lidding Guide

[martin-w 3,234]

Will be deliding tomorrow.

 

 

 

We are cutting in blind. Therefore, I have downloaded the mechanical drawings for the 3770k from Intels website. I now have measurements regarding how far from the edge of the PCB, the die resides.

 

I'll let you know tomorrow, how accurate those measurements are. Makes sense to have accurate measurements to work with.

 

I'm thinking of fabricating a tool. Basically a blade with metal stop attached, to prevent cutting in too deep. Over the top perhaps, but why not, it's easy to do.

[flying_bob 38]

The outer surface of the core is not functional in any way, it is merely there for protective purposes. If you scratched this somehow, it wouldn't have any impact on the functionality of the chip. If your system was unstable when overclocked, you probably just didn't have enough voltage. I suggest you follow the BSOD troubleshooting guide link in my signature to get to the bottom of it so you don't have to waste your money on another chip only to run it slower.

 

I hear and I understand what you guys said. I also did run it stock standard settings - cmos reset) and the problem continued, so even t stock standard I have had this stuttering with FPS anything from 2 to 100. So I doubt it is anything with voltage to do. What bother me the most is that the system ran absolutely perfect for more more then a week with the miost awesome fluidity - I hope that is the word. So yes Martin also pointed outonce set it CANT be damaged and the fact that it did run a week, make this one a tough cookie.

 

Unfortuanately I already bought a new CPU and that one run like a dream, standard and overclocked. So no need to try and find te culprit. After replacing the RAM, motherboard and CPU my problems ended after replacing the CPU. SO honestly I dont know what happend. This is a mistery for me.

[martin-w 3,234]

I'm sure you considered this, but...

 

Was the framerate issue just in FSX, so purely an FSX software glitch, or other games too?

 

Did you try running a benchmark, like Cinebench, 3DMark etc. To eliminate purely an FSX issue.

 

Just wondered out of interest, I know you have a new CPU now.

[flying_bob 38]

I'm sure you considered this, but...

 

Was the framerate issue just in FSX, so purely an FSX software glitch, or other games too?

 

Did you try running a benchmark, like Cinebench, 3DMark etc. To eliminate purely an FSX issue.

 

Just wondered out of interest, I know you have a new CPU now.

 

Unfortuanately not and I only have FSX installed as a game. Maybe I should have tried to run a benchmark or maybe bought a cheap game to check it against to see if it also happen in other games.

 

In the mean time I also did buy myself 3dmark11 and pcmark07 last night, and have ran some benchmarks with 3dmark11, with the new CPU and that perform on par with simmilar setups when i compare scores on the futuremark site. I have not yet run any pcmark07 benchmarks. hopefully I will have time to do that tonight

[martin-w 3,234]

Well, you may be interested to know, I was about to delid a few minutes ago. I had even knocked up a couple of tools to assist me. However, I was suddenly overtaken by a bout of inescapable logic. :biggrin:

 

I did a quick calculation, and it immediately became apparent that even if the process resulted in enough overclocking headroom to increase my 4.5 overclock to 5, I would still only gain 3 frames per second in FSX. That's in a heavy scenario that might benefit from more FPS.

 

So I couldn't really justify the deliding endeavour at all.

 

I wouldn't criticise those who decide to delid, I can certainly understand the urge to counter Intel's incompetence [or deliberate cost saving ploy] and it's fun to see how much we can squeeze out of our chips. But no, not for me. I'll let logic win this time.

 

When I consider that 4.6 is no issue for me [currently at 4.5] a mere 200-300 Mhz isn't worth it.

[TechguyMaxC 516]

3 FPS is the difference between fluid enough to fly and a stuttering mess when the FPS gets low enough. I don't regret my de-lidding in the slightest.

[martin-w 3,234]

3 FPS is the difference between fluid enough to fly and a stuttering mess when the FPS gets low enough. I don't regret my de-lidding in the slightest.

 

Not for me Techguy. I rarely see lower than 30 frames per second. Perhaps a tad lower in the NGX in dodgy weather, whikle on the ground at a detailed airport, but no other time. I never see a "stuttering mess". I'm surprised you see a stuttering mess with such a powerful system!

 

I'm not someone who favours highly detailed third party airports, or anything that would excessively sap performance. I don't require them to enjoy my simming.

 

My FSX settings aren't high either, partly to keep frame rate high, and partly because i'm not a fan of Autogen pop-up. Don't get me wrong, my sliders are high enough for the visual splendour that I favour... and no higher.

 

But yes, I can understand that if you favour max sliders, and fancy airport scenery, and are thus on the bouboundary between playable and not playable, then deliding would be right for you.

 

For me, it's not right, as my sim is how I like it, and my frames are high.

 

For the future I might think differently of course, for example if the PMDG 777 turns out to be very demanding, and I find myself grateful for a few frames per second.

[flyingnoob 25]

For me, whether or not you get 3 FPS may/may not be an issue, but the sound of 10-15 maybe in some cases 20 deg cooler is most certainly appealing.if i hit a clock of 4.6Ghz, i wouldnt de-lid to get to 4.8Ghz, but i would do it if it got my cpu down to say 65 deg from even just 75 deg c.

 

Regards

[TechguyMaxC 516]

Not for me Techguy. I rarely see lower than 30 frames per second. Perhaps a tad lower in the NGX in dodgy weather, whikle on the ground at a detailed airport, but no other time. I never see a "stuttering mess". I'm surprised you see a stuttering mess with such a powerful system!

 

I'm not someone who favours highly detailed third party airports, or anything that would excessively sap performance. I don't require them to enjoy my simming.

 

My FSX settings aren't high either, partly to keep frame rate high, and partly because i'm not a fan of Autogen pop-up. Don't get me wrong, my sliders are high enough for the visual splendour that I favour... and no higher.

 

But yes, I can understand that if you favour max sliders, and fancy airport scenery, and are thus on the bouboundary between playable and not playable, then deliding would be right for you.

 

For me, it's not right, as my sim is how I like it, and my frames are high.

 

For the future I might think differently of course, for example if the PMDG 777 turns out to be very demanding, and I find myself grateful for a few frames per second.

 

Try installing FSDT KJFK, Aerosoft Manhattan X, PMDG NGX, UT2, UTX, and cranking up all your settings to max (and I mean all of them) then tell me what your FPS are.

 

For me, whether or not you get 3 FPS may/may not be an issue, but the sound of 10-15 maybe in some cases 20 deg cooler is most certainly appealing.if i hit a clock of 4.6Ghz, i wouldnt de-lid to get to 4.8Ghz, but i would do it if it got my cpu down to say 65 deg from even just 75 deg c.

 

Regards

 

Another meaningful difference. I see people not de-lidding talking about upper 80's in FSX/P3D and I'm thinking to myself "you're insane". I don't even see those temps when stress testing for hours on end.

[Chris198 1]

Try installing FSDT KJFK, Aerosoft Manhattan X, PMDG NGX, UT2, UTX, and cranking up all your settings to max (and I mean all of them) then tell me what your FPS are

 

Can confirm this, just standard KJFK, NGX, UTX(night lightning) and some traffic bangs me down to 15 fps occasionally ! And look my specs, not so bad my rig I think !

[TechguyMaxC 516]

I see a solid 13 sitting just short of the active runway (default selection) looking out the of the cockpit to the right toward the terminal (with Manhattan in the background). It's just high enough FPS to still be controlable on the ground and in the air. I basically don't fly into detailed airports at night. Otherwise my FPS is 30+ everywhere I go.

[martin-w 3,234]

Try installing FSDT KJFK, Aerosoft Manhattan X, PMDG NGX, UT2, UTX, and cranking up all your settings to max (and I mean all of them) then tell me what your FPS are.

 

Techguy... I don't think you read my post properly.You must have skimmed it.

 

As I said in the other post... I don't have any requirement for Manhattan X, or any other airport add-on. I also don't require all my sliders at max.

 

I adjust my sliders untill I achieve the frame rate I desire, and thats it. The resulting eye candy is acceptable for me.

 

 

I run, UTX, GEX, REX, and that's it. Most demanding aircraft is the NGX. Thus I never see low frame rate, thus I don't require a couple of frames per second courtesy of delidding.

 

In addition, as I said in the previous post, I have no problem with anyone else delidding if they decide that 2-3 frames per second is useful to them.

 

I also said... That in the future, if a new demanding add-on reduces my frame rate significantly, I may concider again delidding.

[martin-w 3,234]

I see a solid 13 sitting just short of the active runway (default selection) looking out the of the cockpit to the right toward the terminal (with Manhattan in the background). It's just high enough FPS to still be controlable on the ground and in the air. I basically don't fly into detailed airports at night. Otherwise my FPS is 30+ everywhere I go.

 

To be honest, and this is just my opinion... If I saw a mere 13 FPS, I would be appalled and uninstall the offending scenery immediately.

 

If it's stopping you flying into detailed airports at night, than why don't you configure your sim to function more acceptably? With a system as powerful as yours, it's seems crazy to suffer 13 FPS.

 

I, occasionaly see about 27 FPS in the NGX, at an FSX default, detailed airport like EGLL. But as soon as I reach the runway frame rate is higher, and in the air, frame rate is 35 plus. At higher altitudes frame rate goes into the 40's, and higher.

 

My other add-ons,like the QW Avro for example, are routinely right up to my frame rate lock of 60 FPS. I never see stutters.

 

Is the eye candy really worth suffering 13 FPS??? I would say not.

 

Another meaningful difference. I see people not de-lidding talking about upper 80's in FSX/P3D and I'm thinking to myself "you're insane". I don't even see those temps when stress testing for hours on end.

 

There must be something wrong with their systems then...

 

At 4.5Ghz, with no delidding, I see around 55 degrees running FSX.

 

That's with a Noctua NH-D14.

 

I see no temp issues, no 80 degree temps... and that's without delidding.

 

It's only at 4.7 Ghz that my volatge requirment, and thus temps, shoot up.

[TechguyMaxC 516]

I dislike it as much as anyone, but I'm not going to reduce settings for just a couple of airports. I'm holding out hope for Haswell and P3D 2.0 to bring enough of a boost to finally put the performance question to bed in all scenarios. Seems like FSX is just never going to get there.

 

I wasn't referring to your temps, btw. There's another user that keeps bragging about his still lidded CPU running 4.9GHz and his temps in P3D get into the upper 80s. He doesn't stress test. That's dangerous, far more so than de-lidding if you ask me.

[martin-w 3,234]

I wasn't referring to your temps, btw. There's another user that keeps bragging about his still lidded CPU running 4.9GHz and his temps in P3D get into the upper 80s. He doesn't stress test. That's dangerous, far more so than de-lidding if you ask me.

 

Well, yes his temps would get into the 80's at 4.9 with no delidding, I'm not surprised he sees high temps. In fact I'm suprised his temps aren't even higher. He must have a good chip. You are right' it is risky, but he probably doesn't "need" 4.9 anyway.

 

I felt it was being implied in the above posts, that those of us not delidding suffer high temps. We don't of course, because we don't need to delid to gain the extra couple of frames some desire.