If I could have one wish for Christmas it would be a force feedback yoke in 300 dollar price range... Does not look like anybody is up to the challenge though :(

I wonder if anyone has tried to make a yoke advanced enough that it can use FSUIPC to read the speed of the aircraft and it has profiles for different speeds that will dynamically adjust the yoke's feel i.e. on a 737 when it is at cruise speeds you should feel a lot of resistance on the yoke due to the airflow on the control surfaces and correspondingly, on approach, resistance should be much lower and the yoke should move more easily. If it did this and was also able to adjust its sensitivity in the sim so that, for example, you get a good response for minimal control deflection at cruise speeds then it would truly be a yoke that can claim to be as real as it gets. It would be epic.

 

Of course, in an Airbus it's irrelevant since the controls aren't connected directly to the surfaces so it wouldn't help me very much (I'm an Airbus lover myself).

Now FS isn't the best for simulating that, and real world control yokes don't have springs in them, so you have to temper all that a bit.

737 roll really is pretty much springs. There's a feel computer for the elevator that adds some feedback, but you're really just moving springs with the roll. There's actually a fairly strong centering feel. I notice it most on approaches when you need just a bit of roll. I hadn't thought of it this way, but it really is like a joystick. No force feedback, or anything, just springs.

I wonder if anyone has tried to make a yoke advanced enough that it can use FSUIPC to read the speed of the aircraft and it has profiles for different speeds that will dynamically adjust the yoke's feel

 

This should be fairly easy to program, as soon as you go the way of dedicated driver for a specific software (well an interface for the driver to read the specific software anyway).

I think there may even be an FS addon that does a similar thing to FF joysticks.

The OP asked about using rudder. What they are teaching is is that rudder is only necessary during engine failures and crosswind landings. The yaw damper will take care of the rest.

 

Interesting info Tom. I find myself using slight rudder inputs along with aileron input even in relatively calm winds during finals. It looks like you are saying that I should not use the rudder at all during finals, only ailerons, is that correct? And when you mention crosswind landings, I presume you are talking about kicking the aircraft out of the crab during the flare, as slipping is prohibited.

 

Maybe it's because rudder and aileron usage to keep the ball centered is hard coded into my brain from past sim experience, or because of limitations or inaccuracies in the Microsoft Flight Simulator world, but I find it very hard to track the centerline during finals with the slightest hint of winds. I wonder if rudder use is necessary during manual flight during final approach only in FSX because of software limitations, as opposed to real life. Can you confirm?

Have you guys heard of FS Force? I am wondering how well it works with a force feedback yoke/joystick -- http://www.fs-force.com/

 

 

Interesting info Tom. I find myself using slight rudder inputs along with aileron input even in relatively calm winds during finals. It looks like you are saying that I should not use the rudder at all during finals, only ailerons, is that correct? And when you mention crosswind landings, I presume you are talking about kicking the aircraft out of the crab during the flare, as slipping is prohibited.

 

Maybe it's because rudder and aileron usage to keep the ball centered is hard coded into my brain from past sim experience, or because of limitations or inaccuracies in the Microsoft Flight Simulator world, but I find it very hard to track the centerline during finals with the slightest hint of winds. I wonder if rudder use is necessary during manual flight during final approach only in FSX because of software limitations, as opposed to real life. Can you confirm?

You shouldn't be using rudder until the flare. For takeoff, you need it, too.

I calibrate my yoke directly in FSUIPC and I get about the same control input to plane response as shown in videos.

 

Can u please share this settings?

Can u please share this settings?

Not on my FSX machine right now, but it's very simple. All controls have straight slopes. I'll post screen shots of the setup later if you need more hints.

You shouldn't be using rudder until the flare. For takeoff, you need it, too.

 

Great, I'll follow your advice for landing! I felt weird using the rudder, as I have read in the PMDG manuals and other reports from real lifers that it's not necessary on landing until flare, now I'm fully convinced to follow through. Yes, for takeoff it's a must, I see it all the time when spotting at airports.

Guys,

 

Try setting your FSX sensitivities to around 1/3 of their max values in the controller settings. I got the chance to fly a real level D 737NG sim a few months ago and somewhere around there is what I felt was closest to the amount of motion the real yoke required. (I have a Saitek X52 system) The real thing is very deliberate - you don't get "fingertip" type control on the yoke the way you do with a joystick at home. It takes a lot of motion to produce a relatively small amount of bank or pitch change.

If you fly the PMDG MD-11 the elevator is very sensitive. It does not have a heavy feel according to my friend who was capt. on this acrft. When he sat at my controls, he said two fingers in both hands would be enough to manipulate the column. This was AAL MD-11's. He also pointed out that the tail engine put alot of force downward during taxi

Have you guys heard of FS Force? I am wondering how well it works with a force feedback yoke/joystick -- http://www.fs-force.com/

I use it, it is useful for roll and other vibrations, but, you must deactivate it for pitch trim.

FSforce is designed for airplanes with trim tabs, not aircrafts with stab trims, so, activating fsforce pitch trim, you will lose stab trim (you need to use a key combination to restore it) I tried to contact the developers hoping that they will combine stab trim (FS trim) plus yoke re-centering as in the real one.

FSforce, for roll trim, is perfect, you feel the joy/yoke forces recentering to the new position, also, if you set correctly you can add the forces from 0kts as you have springs for the centering systems. FSforce can be also set to give a proportional force for the pitch, this simulating the artificial feel unit present on the real, this means that increasing speed will increase joystick force required to move the elevators.

Search the settings here on the forum, I already shared the settings.

I hope that more features for force feedback devices will be added in future aircraft, for example a force feedback simulation of hyd failure and manual reversion could fix the current simulated one, will also add more realism on ground when you turn normally off the hydraulics and you will see the controls becaming hard. The other trim and pitch forces should also be made inside the ngx and other lanes, but I know that FF users are only a minority of the simmers.

Interesting info Tom. I find myself using slight rudder inputs along with aileron input even in relatively calm winds during finals. It looks like you are saying that I should not use the rudder at all during finals, only ailerons, is that correct? And when you mention crosswind landings, I presume you are talking about kicking the aircraft out of the crab during the flare, as slipping is prohibited.

 

Maybe it's because rudder and aileron usage to keep the ball centered is hard coded into my brain from past sim experience, or because of limitations or inaccuracies in the Microsoft Flight Simulator world, but I find it very hard to track the centerline during finals with the slightest hint of winds. I wonder if rudder use is necessary during manual flight during final approach only in FSX because of software limitations, as opposed to real life. Can you confirm?

 

What Matt said is correct. I typically will start feeding the rudder in as I am flaring to land. They became much more adamant about not using rudder after our A300 had the vertical satbilizer break off from the pilot's rudder inputs. In light planes rudder is a must when ever you are using ailerons but the yaw damper does a pretty good job in all the airliners I've flown.

Guys,

 

Try setting your FSX sensitivities to around 1/3 of their max values in the controller settings. I got the chance to fly a real level D 737NG sim a few months ago and somewhere around there is what I felt was closest to the amount of motion the real yoke required. (I have a Saitek X52 system) The real thing is very deliberate - you don't get "fingertip" type control on the yoke the way you do with a joystick at home. It takes a lot of motion to produce a relatively small amount of bank or pitch change.

If you reduce sensitivity all you're doing is reducing the rate at which the surfaces move in response to an input. That's just adding lag, whereas the real surfaces move fast. Lag in the controls will make handling worse. Any lag in reality is due to inertia and aerodynamic damping forces. However the animated wheel in the NGX VC only moves about half of the angle the real 737 wheel does for maximum aileron deflection so it might appear in the VC that less wheel is being used compared to the real thing when in fact it isn't.

 

Most airline flying is done with small control inputs. As a passenger, you rarely see the ailerons move much if you look out of the window during a turn. If you want to make a large bank angle change you can do it with a small input, but the roll rate will be slow. If you want to rapidly roll you will need a large input but have to back it off quickly as you reach your target attitude.