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sbclark

Challenging Arrival into Ontario CA (KONT)

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----- Sorry, this needs to be moved to the PMDG 737 NGX forum ----

 

I like to fly out of Las Vegas (KLAS) to a variety of cities in the west.

 

Yesterday, I chose a flight from KLAS to Ontario (KONT), below is the flight plan:

 

KLAS BOACH4.HEC ZIGGY4.26B.HEC KONT

 

To fly the ZIGGY4 Arrival correctly into KONT, you have to read the chart as there is a comment at fix DAWNA that reads as follows:

 

VERTICAL NAVIGATION

PLANNING INFORMATION

Expect clearance to cross at 12,000 ft.

 

The first time I flew this arrival (before looking at the chart), I would have flown the PMDG 737 into the face of the San Gabriel Mountains if I had followed the FMC.

 

So what I did was set up a speed/altitude restriction of 230/12000 at DAWNA to avoid crashing.

 

To meet the altitude restriction at SBNB (latest Navigraph build 1211) of 2900, I was then forced to extend the spoilers, drop the gear, and then set up a decent rate of 2,200 ft/min using Lvl Chng. It was the only way to get down to this altitude restriction in this short a distance.

 

Note – SBNB has been replaced by PETIS on the latest chart, so the Navigraph data base looks like it may be incorrect.

 

My question is, how do you best fly this Arrival. I would be interested in hearing from others?

 

BTW, it is a pretty short flight.

 

Bill Clark


Bill Clark
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----- Sorry, this needs to be moved to the PMDG 737 NGX forum ----

 

I like to fly out of Las Vegas (KLAS) to a variety of cities in the west.

 

Yesterday, I chose a flight from KLAS to Ontario (KONT), below is the flight plan:

 

KLAS BOACH4.HEC ZIGGY4.26B.HEC KONT

 

To fly the ZIGGY4 Arrival correctly into KONT, you have to read the chart as there is a comment at fix DAWNA that reads as follows:

 

VERTICAL NAVIGATION

PLANNING INFORMATION

Expect clearance to cross at 12,000 ft.

 

The first time I flew this arrival (before looking at the chart), I would have flown the PMDG 737 into the face of the San Gabriel Mountains if I had followed the FMC.

 

So what I did was set up a speed/altitude restriction of 230/12000 at DAWNA to avoid crashing.

 

To meet the altitude restriction at SBNB (latest Navigraph build 1211) of 2900, I was then forced to extend the spoilers, drop the gear, and then set up a decent rate of 2,200 ft/min using Lvl Chng. It was the only way to get down to this altitude restriction in this short a distance.

 

Note – SBNB has been replaced by PETIS on the latest chart, so the Navigraph data base looks like it may be incorrect.

 

My question is, how do you best fly this Arrival. I would be interested in hearing from others?

 

BTW, it is a pretty short flight.

 

Bill Clark

 

The ZIGGY arrival to KONT can be challenging. I flew for several years with UPS Virtual Airlines, and KONT was my home base, so I have done this quite often.

 

For a runway 26R or 26L approach, the descent begins at DAWNA and ends at PETIS, which has an altitude restriction of 4,200 feet. You would, of course, be turning on to the runway 26R localizer at PETIS.

 

The distance from DAWNA to PETIS is 17 NM, and you need to descend 7,800 feet.

 

The secret is to reduce speed as much as possible BEFORE arriving at DAWNA. You'll note that there is no speed restriction at DAWNA on the chart, requiring you to maintain 250.

 

You mentioned that you selected 230 knots at DAWNA. I'd suggest a lower speed than that. I mainly did this arrival using the LevelD 767, and I would arrange to be level at 12,000 feet about 5 miles before DAWNA, and would reduce to 180 knots with flaps 5 by the time I would get to the waypoint.

 

Descending at 180 knots permits a reasonable vertical speed in the range of 1500 to 1800 feet per minute, with spoilers used as required. The only time it gets dicey is if you have a strong tailwind, though in these instances, the runway 08 approaches would likely be in use, in which case you would continue past PETIS to PDZ VOR, which permits a more shallow descent overall.

 

Doing it this way is not a problem in either the real or virtual world. There will be many KLAX arrivals traversing the same ground path from HEC to PDZ via DAWNA, but they will be several thousand feet above KONT arrivals on the ZIGGY STAR, so slowing early is not going to produce an airborne "traffic jam".

 

Don't attempt to cheat by descending to 4,200 feet early (before PETIS) - or you are likely to have an unpleasant terrain conflict!

 


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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This airport seems quite interesting. It is also interesting that UPS selected this airport as a hub instead of the more-popular KLAX. When I first read about it, I thought it was referring to an airport in Ontario, Canada, which seemed weird, as Ontario is a province. How confusing!


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Owen
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Descending at 180 knots permits a reasonable vertical speed in the range of 1500 to 1800 feet per minute, with spoilers used as required. The only time it gets dicey is if you have a strong tailwind,

 

What a great post! There is no substitute for experience! Check out my "about me" section.


Frank Patton
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                        There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit! - Benjamin Jowett

 

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This airport seems quite interesting. It is also interesting that UPS selected this airport as a hub instead of the more-popular KLAX. When I first read about it, I thought it was referring to an airport in Ontario, Canada, which seemed weird, as Ontario is a province. How confusing!

 

Real-world UPS flights do go inyo LAX too, but there are several advantages to Ontario as a main hub.

 

1. Less air traffic. KONT is served by several airlines, but the amount of airline takeoff and landing operations is far less than at LAX, which means less chances of UPS cargo flights encountering delays on departure or arrival. In a sense they "have the airport to themselves" in a way that they couldn't at LAX.

 

2. Infrastructure. ONT has two long runways, including 26R at over 12,000 feet long - ideal for even the largest, heavily loaded 747 and MD-11 freighters. UPS has a big cargo sorting and processing building at the southeast corner of the airport, with an enormous ramp capable of parking dozens of large aircraft. There is no way the company could have built such a facility at LAX, as the available real estate there is lacking, and even if if that wasn't a problem, I'm sure that the cost of land, and property taxes would be much higher.

 

3. Better weather. LAX, being immediately adjacent to the Pacific ocean, experiences low clouds and fog at certain times of year which could cause problems or delays for arriving flights, while ONT which is several miles inland, doesn't have that problem.

 

4. Probably the most important advantage to KONT is accessability to the ground transportation network. The airport is immediately adjacent to Interstate 10, which is the main east/west highway serving the Los Angeles metro area, and the main transcontinental rail lines of the Santa Fe and Union Pacific railroads pass right by the airport as well. This makes it ideal for getting cargo to and from the airport. If you look at an aerial photo of the airport on Google Earth, you see that it is surrounded on all sides by many square miles of warehouses and light manufacturing facilities.


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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