I created a Flightaware account, and created a new "Flightplan" for a test from KDEN to KMCI. The legs it gave me are:

 

KDEN MCK PWE RBA JUDAA BOWLR PEGGI HUGGY KMCI

 

​Haven't tested them out, but they still don't give me the runway sid/star specifically

 

Which was my original question.

 

Scarlett,

 

What I was describing doesn't require a log in, or a query for it to build a plan for you.

Use this: http://flightaware.com/live/findflight

 

If I want to fly a flight from KTPA to KIAD, I would just enter KTPA in the origin and KIAD in the destination. Click Submit, and it'll bring up all of the flights within the past few days between those two airports. It's best to choose an aircraft type that's similar to the one you're flying (props can occasionally get assigned different STARs, as one example).

 

If you run the city pair that I mentioned, you'll find UAL1599, which shows the route as:

BAYPO5 DUNKN J75 CAE J51 FAK BARIN1

 

Done!

 

 

 

Now, a quick note on routing (in case you're crazy enough to want to do it yourself):

In the National Airspace System (NAS), you can file any route you want. Here's a flight plan from KPAE to KPAE. The issue is that you want to get a close to the optimally direct route as possible, so you want to find the most direct path between the two airports. If the airports have SIDs or STARs, you'll need to take a look at each one of those and get a general feel for which one accepts traffic in the direction you want to go. As an example, why would I file a STAR that approaches the airport from the NE when I'm coming from the S? I wouldn't. In order to route myself, I normally work backwards (STAR, then route, then SID, adjust route to meet SID as necessary).

 

Right off the top of my head, I know that KIAD STARs are the following:

SHNON/ROYIL: From the NW and SW

GIBBZ: From the NW

DOCCS: From the SW

BARIN/COATT: From the S

HYPER/DELRO: From the NE (specifically NY area)

PRTZL: From the N, NNW and NE

SEG: From the N and NE

 

That all came from operational experience, but now I know, if I'm flying up from the FL area, chances are, I want my route to connect up with the BARIN or COATT STAR because they serve traffic from the south (they're the same STAR, but the BARIN was made for more advanced navigation equip). So, now I know I'm flying the BARIN STAR.

 

As for the route, I can work backward from the BARIN's RIChmond or FlAt rocK VORs. The United dispatcher who routed this flight chose DUNKN J75 CAE J51 FAK (ending at FlAt rocK), but I could just as easily do OCF CRG J121 CHS J165 RIC (picking up the BARIN1 at RIChmond). As I worked backward, I found that the TPA5 SID from KTPA had OCF listed as a departure fix, so I began my route with that. In the end, I get TPA5 OCF CRG J121 CHS J165 RIC BARIN1. My route is 718.1nm, whereas the UAL one from earlier is actually 721.9nm. In the end, not a significant difference, and neither one is more right than the other (though in some cases, ATC strongly prefers one over the other to make their lives a little easier).

 

In the end, though, you're in Flight Simulator to be a pilot, not a dispatcher. While, yes, the General Aviation pilot is normally their own dispatcher, creating your own routes can take a lot of time and effort, so why not just use what the real pilots are using? The airline flights on FlightAware were all passed through a dispatcher. "Use" their dispatchers by using the flights they actually flew. Don't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel each time you fly, or use old, well-out-of-date routes.

Thanks guys.

 

I just updated my Airac Cycle today to the latest version, as I always do.

 

But I think i'll stick with simroutes. Even if they are outdated, they are easy way to put in stars sids....

 

I just am not taking the time right now to learn all of this!!! It's so complicated!!!

I just am not taking the time right now to learn all of this!!! It's so complicated!!!

 

That's what I'm getting at, though...there's no need to learn anything.

 

With SimRoutes, it might tell you that you need the CSN5 STAR (no longer exists).

With FlightAware, you're getting a route that was flown today. It is always up to date. The STAR is already in there for you.

That's what I'm getting at, though...there's no need to learn anything.

 

With SimRoutes, it might tell you that you need the CSN5 STAR (no longer exists).

With FlightAware, you're getting a route that was flown today. It is always up to date. The STAR is already in there for you.

 

Yeah but simroutes automatically loads the VSPEEDS and correct Flightlevels automatically for that particular LEG.

 

Flightaware dosen't even show them..

 

With Flightaware, I have to minimize FSX, go to flightware, minimize FSX, go to flightware etc...

It really doesn't - at all - but if you'd like to continue doing what you're doing, you're certainly welcome to do that.

V-speeds have nothing to do with your route, and when you import

 

Just to show the proof, here's the SimRoutes export:

TPA4 (<--outdated) TAY J75 CAE J51 FAK COATT4

[flightplan]

title=KTPA to KIAD

description=KTPA, KIAD

type = IFR

routetype = 3

cruising_altitude=0

departure_id=KTPA, N27* 58.53', W82* 32.00', +000026.00

destination_id=KIAD, N38* 56.67', W77* 27.35', +000313.00

departure_name=Tampa_Intl

destination_name=Washington_Dulles_Intl

waypoint.0=KTPA, A, N27* 58.53', W082* 31.99', +000000.00,

waypoint.1=CAE, V, N33* 51.43', W081* 03.23', +000000.00,

waypoint.2=CASAT, I, N34* 28.41', W080* 22.58', +000000.00, J51

waypoint.3=TUBAS, I, N35* 09.96', W079* 35.85', +000000.00, J51

waypoint.4=FLOPS, I, N35* 42.22', W079* 12.35', +000000.00, J51

waypoint.5=FOZZY, I, N36* 22.42', W078* 42.54', +000000.00, J51

waypoint.6=CREWE, I, N37* 01.38', W078* 13.06', +000000.00, J51

waypoint.7=FAK, V, N37* 31.71', W077* 49.69', +000000.00,

waypoint.8=NABBS, I, N37* 52.59', W077* 37.49', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.9=COATT, I, N37* 57.50', W077* 34.61', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.10=OGATE, I, N38* 03.48', W077* 31.07', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.11=FALKO, I, N38* 11.11', W077* 26.56', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.12=BRV, V, N38* 20.18', W077* 21.17', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.13=BARIN, I, N38* 35.18', W077* 21.83', +000000.00, COATT4

waypoint.14=KIAD, A, N38* 56.67', W077* 27.35', +000000.00, COATT4

 

There is no altitude in there at all.

If you're looking at the TAS window on SimRoutes, that's only there for informational purposes to show your route time. It doesn't get ported at all into your aircraft. Altitudes don't go in either (as shown). What you're seeing in your FMS is simply its own internal calculation.

 

The FlightAware flight I linked to earlier, does actually show you that the flight flew at FL350.

 

 

 

Not saying you can't do it...just giving you reasons why you're just making it more difficult for yourself...

Ok, so if i enter the lags manually from Flightware, how will it be easier?

I have to enter the waypoint to intercept the runway manually

 

"This is great, but it's not runway specific."

 

"....but they still don't give me the runway sid/star specifically..."

 

I have read through this thread twice and I am not sure everyone is on the same page. I know what she is saying (SID/STAR), but she also keeps saying "runway". Is she needing approach plates instead? Runway approaches instead of STARs? STARs are not normally runway specific.

I have read through this thread twice and I am not sure everyone is on the same page. I know what she is saying (SID/STAR), but she also keeps saying "runway". Is she needing approach plates instead? Runway approaches instead of STARs? STARs are not normally runway specific.

 

YEs!!!

I have read through this thread twice and I am not sure everyone is on the same page. I know what she is saying (SID/STAR), but she also keeps saying "runway". Is she needing approach plates instead? Runway approaches instead of STARs? STARs are not normally runway specific.

 

Post #2 answered that, but none of us understood the reason she needed the waypoint names because, as we should all know, you don't hand enter them in (and doing so is not an approved method, per the FAA). She noted that she saw the waypoints listed on the plates in Post #9, so the question was understood as "answered."

 

 

 

 

While, yes, it's true that we're discussing something other than the direct answer to the question, the reason is that the answer isn't necessary or proper.

 

What it boils down to, though, is just not understanding how to work with the FMC. I could be misunderstanding the problem, but there's no need to know the fix names so that you can enter them by hand. If you're trying to add them into SimRoutes with your route, and then importing that route, you're boxing yourself in. What happens if on a 3 hour flight the wind changes? Happens all the time. You now have a route forcing you onto the runway from prior to departure that now has a 20 knot tailwind...hmm.

 

There's a reason real COROUTEs are often just the bare route without any SID, STAR, or runway: variation.

 

We don't segment the SID, route, STAR and approach just to make it difficult and give people something to learn. We segment those navigation areas to handle variation:

Where do you need to go? SID-A can do that.

Thunderstorms on the OCF CRG J121 CHS J165 RIC route? Try DUNKN J75 CAE J51 FAK.

Can't fly the BARIN1? Okay, here's the COATT.

Approaching from the West? Fly the SHNON. Can't fly that? Here's the ROYIL.

 

You don't select your runway until you're in your descent. Why? It may change because of wind. At an airport with multiple parallel runways, who knows if you're going to get the left, right, or center runway?

 

In a sim, you're welcome to do whatever you please, but in the end, you have to remember that you're simulating real world concepts. If you refuse to treat real world concepts as real world, you're not going to get a very good result.

Well, Kyle, this is the first post that kind of answers the lingering question I had while reading this...

 

Scarlett, do you know why and how runways are chosen for the plane to use? This is the most basic and most crucial question to start from.

Summer1,

 

I think I and others on this forum have overloaded you with information on flight planning, STARS, etc. So I want to just zero in on your original question:

 

So, It's really annoying when I am going to autoland the NGX, and I have to enter the waypoint to intercept the runway manually in the FMC everytime..and find it on the map.

 

Forget about SIDS and STARS for the moment. Forget about the enroute part of your plan. Just enter your departure and arrival airports on the Route page of your FMC. DON'T activate it or execute it. Now click on the DEP/ARR (Departure/Arrival) key on the FMC. Next click on the ARRIVAL key for your destination airport. You should see a list of runway approaches on the right side of the FMC screen. (You will most likely see STARs on the left side of the screen, but ignore them for now.) Page down until you find the runway and approach you want. If your destination has ILS runways, they should be there -- just page up and down to see what is there. Click on the one you want. You may need to choose a transition -- that's where charts come in handy. Click on a transition if this option is offered. If you now go to the "legs" page of your FMC you should see all of the waypoints for your final approach, and quite probably the missed approach procedure as well. Now you can add in your departure, enroute and STAR any way you want to.

 

You can also change runways as you get near your airport, again by clicking on the DEP/ARR key of your FMC and choosing the ARR/Arrivals button for your destination. But you probably won't be able to do this for awhile after takeoff, as the FMC won't offer an arrival page for your destination airport until you get close.

 

Mike

Summer1,

 

I think I and others on this forum have overloaded you with information on flight planning, STARS, etc. So I want to just zero in on your original question:

 

 

 

Forget about SIDS and STARS for the moment. Forget about the enroute part of your plan. Just enter your departure and arrival airports on the Route page of your FMC. DON'T activate it or execute it. Now click on the DEP/ARR (Departure/Arrival) key on the FMC. Next click on the ARRIVAL key for your destination airport. You should see a list of runway approaches on the right side of the FMC screen. (You will most likely see STARs on the left side of the screen, but ignore them for now.) Page down until you find the runway and approach you want. If your destination has ILS runways, they should be there -- just page up and down to see what is there. Click on the one you want. You may need to choose a transition -- that's where charts come in handy. Click on a transition if this option is offered. If you now go to the "legs" page of your FMC you should see all of the waypoints for your final approach, and quite probably the missed approach procedure as well. Now you can add in your departure, enroute and STAR any way you want to.

 

You can also change runways as you get near your airport, again by clicking on the DEP/ARR key of your FMC and choosing the ARR/Arrivals button for your destination. But you probably won't be able to do this for awhile after takeoff, as the FMC won't offer an arrival page for your destination airport until you get close.

 

Mike

 

You can't just pick and choose any old SID or transition from the runway you are taking off from??? Right? The LNAV and VNAV won't activate...

 

I already do what you said. When it comes to the DEP/ARR page. But the correct LEGS are not entered into the FMC.

 

And how do you know what transition or SID to choose from the runway you are taking off from!?

Once you select the runway, only those SIDs will stay shown in the FMC, that are valid for runway chosen.

 

for ex. there are four SID to DEDIS from LZKZ. DED1A,1B,1Y,1Z. As soon as I choose runway 01, only DED1A and DED1B will stay shown (plus MARKA, KEKED, EBENI, NOKRI SIDs).

 

Or you can just take off straight ahead and then continue direct to first point of your route after climbing a bit.

And how do you know what transition or SID to choose from the runway you are taking off from!?

 

First - make sure you have the charts for the SIDS for your departure airfield. Then put all the ones aside that are not for the runway you're using based on the wind direction (or that is specified by ATC) e.g. wind is 270deg at 10kts - choose rw27. Then look at your route. The first waypoint of your route will normally be the same as the last waypoint of your SID, or choose the SID that takes you in the right direction towards your first waypoint. E.G. if you're flying from London to Paris, you wouldn't choose a SID to the north

 

i.e. the decision as to the SID to use is normally a quite easy logical discovery based on the departure runway in use (which will normally be based on wind direction) then choosing the SID that ends in your first waypoint or heads that way. LNAV and VNAV can activate, but remember they are not intelligent. You need to choose what is safest, logical and best for the flight, Captain

You can't just pick and choose any old SID or transition from the runway you are taking off from??? Right? The LNAV and VNAV won't activate...

 

Whether or not LNAV/VNAV activate isn't because you're choosing the wrong SID. LNAV won't take hold because the first fix isn't within the limits of arming the LNAV on the ground. You just arm it in the air. This is explained in tutorial 1 or the intro doc. I forget which. In any case, most SIDs in the States are vectored before they dump you onto the SID, so you shouldn't have it on LNAV before departure anyway - you'd have it on heading.

 

I already do what you said. When it comes to the DEP/ARR page. But the correct LEGS are not entered into the FMC.

 

What do you mean the 'correct' legs are not entered into the FMC? I really must stress that you enter them on your own instead of relying on SimRoutes. That method could be the cause of the errors and you learn nothing from it. If you wanted a simple plane to fly simple and outdated routes, you could've saved yourself $70 and all the learning using the default 737 with the default GPS...

 

And how do you know what transition or SID to choose from the runway you are taking off from!?

 

I already explained this. Work backwards on the route if you're making it on your own, or use FlightAware - it's already in there!

DAWGS6 SPA J14 CREWE J51 FAK BARIN1

That's the DAWGS6 SID, SPA Transition. If you don't route yourself using the techniques I explained earlier, all you need to do is look at what FlightAware gives you. As long as you keep your nav data up to date, it'll never be any different.

 

If you're routing yourself, as I mentioned, work backwards. If that's too confusing, work forwards, but make sure to look at each departure on AirNav first and see which one goes in the direction you need to go, and build a route from that transition point all the way up to the STAR of the destination field.

 

 

 

By trying to force yourself into pre-built routes and importing them through some file, you're really hurting yourself. By entering your own routes into the FMC by hand and then setting your SID/STAR - even if you use a route off of FlightAware - you'll begin to understand how the whole process comes together.

 

Until then, you're attempting to understand how to bake a cake by handing someone else the ingredients and showing back up for the final result.

I've provided a post explaining the process, and a few of us have shown you the charts, and resources for finding routes as examples of what you should hand enter. It's up to you to take it from here. No matter what we say here, you're never going to learn it if you don't do it.