Hello everyone, I have got a question, that came up in the last few days, as I was practicing off line on DME arcs, and holding procedures: when you set the bank to standard, it means the 180 degree turn takes a full minute, no more, no less. Well, the piston Duke takes well over 85 seconds, which is not real at all, and screws the whole holding procedure. I tried the same thing with the default Baron58, and it turns in exactly 60 seconds. I sent a message to Sean, at support, but to no avail, so I am wondering if anyone else noticed it. It seems odd that an add on like the Duke does not fly by the book, if anyone has an answer for this, please let me know. I know it seems like a silly question, but first, it should not happen, and second, it is for my Senior Pilot IVAO exam, where they make you fly holding procedures, and see if you follow the procedure correctly. Anyone with an answer, please let me know, many thanks,

 

Enrico :smile:

What are you using for a reference, the T&B or the markings on the HSI? I only have the turbo Duke installed but I assume the flight instruments are the same

Hello Jay, I am using the markings on the turn coordinator, with the standard rate mark. It should be the right thing to do, I believe...

 

Enrico

Should be but maybe the marks are off a tad, try a slight increase in bank until you get the correct rate then see where the needle lines up and use that for a reference. Them old planes tend to loosen up as they get older :blink:

Sean / Rob will answer you in due course.. I am sure.. Maybe they are in a different time zone etc as you. I have always had replies from realair, even if it take day or two. They do have a life also and are not 24/7 365 days in front of computor.

An interesting observation. Took the Duke up for timed turns on autopilot, and, by jove, it does what is stated above. You can get the correct rate one turn timing by increasing the 'max_bank=' under [autopilot] in the 'aircraft cfg'. Change it from '25' to '30'. [Make a back up of 'aircraft.cfg' first!] This is just an observation and not a fully tested or validated adjustment. There could be some 'unintended consequences'! It feels like a steep turn, but resolves the timing problem.

Enrico, is your yaw damper on and how fast are you flying the holding? Up to 170kts GS should work fine with that 25° limit. Anything more will decrease the turn rate.

 

With Labrador's fix, you can fly faster of course (up to 210kts GS), if the bank limit in the aircraft.cfg is the culprit.

Sean / Rob will answer you in due course.. I am sure.. Maybe they are in a different time zone etc as you. I have always had replies from realair, even if it take day or two. They do have a life also and are not 24/7 365 days in front of computor.

 

Hello flying_bob, I see what you are saying and I agree, mine was not meant to be a complaint towards the Realair team whatsoever, I would not do it, at all. I understand people have businesses to run and a life, no question about it. I was just trying to see if some other Duke owner had encountered the same behavior, as simple as that. I wrote to Rob a few times in the past, and he always answered me in a timely manner and helped me out as best as he could. So, on my part, no complaint! :smile:

 

Enrico, is your yaw damper on and how fast are you flying the holding? Up to 170kts GS should work fine with that 25° limit. Anything more will decrease the turn rate.

 

With Labrador's fix, you can fly faster of course (up to 210kts GS), if the bank limit in the aircraft.cfg is the culprit.

 

Hi CoolP, no, the yaw damper was off, I tried that turn at different speeds, from say 180 kt IAS down to I believe 140kt IAS or something. It could be the yaw damper, I'll give it a try tomorrow, time to hit the sack over here, thanks for the heads up :wink:

 

Enrico

The yaw damper would just make sure that you are turning coordinated. Well, you can achieve that with manual rudder or the autorudder in FSX too. I just had it in mind as a possible error source if either the yaw damper was acting wrong or the manual rudder would lead to uncoordinated turns.

 

Well, on the speeds. I have to test her later, but really try to stay slow and check again. If we assume that the autopilot can bank 25° and the yaw damper keeps the turn coordinated, you should get nice 3°/s rates up to 170kts GS.

so I am wondering if anyone else noticed it.

 

This was one of Geoffa's long standing complaints about FSX iirc... not sure if it is a/c specific or something to do with FSX or or or....

I once had a whole bunch of default FSX planes turning and measured their times. They fit. The OP also had the default Baron running (worked), so maybe it really just is a system or detail on the Duke which, currently, causes the lower turn rates.

 

I'm away from my machine, so I can't test her.

This was one of Geoffa's long standing complaints about FSX iirc... not sure if it is a/c specific or something to do with FSX or or or....

 

Hi Great Ozzie, it is not FSX. Like CoolP pointed out, I tried the same turn with the default Cessna172 and Baron58, and they both turn in exactly 1 minute. It is an issue with the Duke. I'll try with the yaw damper on tonight, let's see if that makes a difference,

 

Enrico

It's hard to know whether it is the same "Enrico", but if it is the same person who contact me several times by email about your exams, I replied to you each time very quickly and on some occasions in less than four hours. I am therefore mystified why you should say you contacted Sean to no avail, implying that we don't reply to queries, whereas we never fail to reply, usually within hours, sometimes minutes, and rarely a day.

 

Maybe my answers to you were not satisfactory, but looking at the correspondence I think I answered a whole host of emails from you in detail, for a total number of 10 separate emails over a period of just over a week. Apologies if this wasn't you but it seems likely it was.

 

Regarding standard rate turns, one feature we put into all of our aircraft to overcome FSX's inherent "stiff" rudder/yaw which by default disables any kind of realistic side slipping, is to loosen up the yaw. This is a well known RealAir feature that has been appreciated by our customers for years. The ability to side slip properly also has a small side effect which is to require a little more rudder into a turn on many of our aircraft. We feel this is a small price to pay for unlocking a stiff rudder which is completely unrealistic.

 

Some of the default aircraft do indeed achieve a very easy standard rate turn, but they do this without needing in most cases any rudder input, and also have very stiff yaw which completely disables any proper reaction to lateral gusts of wind and they absolutely cannot side slip.

 

In addition, basic functions of the turn and slip indicators in FSX are more or less hard coded, and you'll see from almost all FSX aircraft that in particular the ball is skittish and is not a very accurate indicator of true slip. It also over-reacts to pitch. The solution in your case is to not take the turn and slip indicator as more than a rough guide, and make sure you add a little rudder to "help" the standard rate turn by not relying on aileron/roll alone.

 

Sean can deal with technical queries based on gauges and graphics, but I am the first person to contact with any support and that is stated on our website.

 

If you have any issues that I can help you with, I am available almost everyday including weekends and public holidays, and many times at night as well. Please email me if you need further help with the standard rate turn issue. Thank you.

 

Rob - RealAir

Best support in the business ........

Best support in the business ........

 

I agree.