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AWStirling

Unrealistic pitch response

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Hi

I've recently returned to FSX after a short break and installed it on a computer that provides ample frame rate. I think the sim is great with one exception. It seems the pitch in many A/C is too unstable. Very small movements of the elevator with the yoke seems to make the nose bob up and down. I have real world flying experience, mostly in gliders but also a little in the C172 so have a reasonable idea of what to expect. I've never flown a real 737 but I bet that a tiny pitch movement on the yoke does not cause this nose bobbing situation in real life. There's a lot of momentum to overcome and an aircraft that large would not behave this way. The roll behavior seems much more realistic and one can sense the momentum of the wings as one rolls the aircraft to initiate a turn. In the control settings within FSX, I've made adjustments to the elevator axis sensitivity and null zones but cannot get what I consider to be a stable pitch response. Does anyone have any suggestions how to make the pitch response more realistic? I'm currently using the Saitek Pro Yoke System but I've had similar responses from other controllers as well.

 

Thanks, Al

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Pitch response has always been a problem with many fight simulators. I quit flying SubLogic's ATP because of this. I think when Microsoft wanted Cessna to certify the MSFS Cessna's flight model, they were required to make changes, and I'm guessing this was the big one, as pitch response in all MSFS aircraft improved a lot after that.

 

What I do now, when a plane has twitchy response in either elevator or rudder, is to use the CH Control Manager to change the response curve, flattening it a bit, and the results have been very good. I believe that FSUIPC has a similar function in the registered version.

 

I had to use modified response curves in Microsoft Flight in the earliest versions, but the final version didn't need the changes. So it's obvious that the fixes can be made in the flight model, but probably only at the source code level. I've tried other methods using modifications to the aircraft config file, but the results haven't been as good.

 

Not all aircraft require changes though, so some experimentation is in order. Considering that real aircraft always seem to be easier to fly than their sim counterparts, you're not looking for extreme accuracy in the response, but for a reasonable feel in the controls.

 

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

 

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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Well, if you are talking about FSX default aircraft / some average freeware you are definitely right, they mostly aren't that good in terms of flight dynamics. But then proper payware addons like PMDG 737NGX are good to fly.

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- About the Cessna 172:

 

download 'Cessna 172 for 2004' at:

 

http://www.realairsi...?page=downloads

 

It says "Cessna 172 for 2004" but you can use the ' aircraft.cfg ' as a replacement for the default FSX Cessna 172 without any problem: it's compatible and works very wel..

It's the best free one you can find, made by the famous RealAir.

 

- Other updated FSX stock air.files (including another Cessna 172) from Metzgergva here::

 

http://www.metzgergv...emid=39〈=en


With kind regards,

 

Bart S.

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Hi Guys

 

Thx for your replies. I've started tinkering with the aircraft.cfg file in the Airplanes folder with some reasonable success. For the Baron 58 I've managed to get the "bobbing" damped out quite a bit by adjusting the elevator effectiveness (from 1.0 to 0.2) and the pitch stability (from 1.0 to 3.0) in the [flight-tuning] section. Although changing these values by this much does damp out the "bobbing" response I was referring to, it now seems small yoke movements occasionally cause quite wild VSI fluctuations. I'll give Saitek's profile editor a try and also have a look at FSUIPC. I'll also have a look at the Cessna for 2004 and check out it's cfg file.

 

cheers, Al

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Al, just for info, this are the settings i found for the Carenado Beech 58:

 

[flight_tuning]

cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0

parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0

induced_drag_scalar = 1.0

elevator_effectiveness = 0.9

aileron_effectiveness = 1.0

rudder_effectiveness = 1.0

pitch_stability = 1.93

roll_stability = 1.0

yaw_stability = 1.0

elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0

aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0

rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0

torque_on_roll =0.6

p_factor_on_yaw =0.5


With kind regards,

 

Bart S.

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Thx Bart

 

My settings for the stock baron were much more extreme. I installed a copy of FSUIPC4 and have adjusted the slope on the elevator curve thru that program and have modified the baron's aircraft.cfg stability and effectiveness values quite a bit. However, making the slope flatter did help stabilize the pitch response near the centre point, it makes it much more sensitive towards the end of the range. This definitely is a disadvantage in a turn (especially a steep one) which requires quite bit of back pressure to keep the nose from dropping. Regardless, things are much better now than they were which makes my ILS approach practise much earier.

 

happy holidays

 

Al

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Hi Al,

 

I don't remember where or when but i once dowloaded also this information for tuning the Beech Baron and King air:

 

Quote:

 

tcfoster@charter.net

 

This is an update for the beech_baron_58 Aircraft.cfg flight tuning section.

The values in the flight tuning of all FSX aircraft are defaulted to 1.0

This update to the Beech Baron and the Beech King air 350 allows for better accuracy in the handling of the aircraft and is more realistic to that of the real Beech Baron and Beech King air 350.

 

NOTE: You will have to cut the aircraft.cfg to your desktop make the changes then save and then cut and paste the aircraft.cfg back into the aircraft folder this is the only way you can make changes to the .CFG files in FSX that I know of.

Instalation: First make a backup of your beech baron aircraft.cfg in case you want to change it back. then under the [flight tuning] section of your aircraft.cfg you can do one of two things you can copy the numbers in there correct place or you can delete the whole flight tuning section and then copy and paste the new one. That's it go start FSX.

 

 

Beech baron 58

 

[flight_tuning]

cruise_lift_scalar=1.0

parasite_drag_scalar=1.0

induced_drag_scalar=1.0

elevator_effectiveness=0.8

aileron_effectiveness=1.34

rudder_effectiveness=1.0

pitch_stability=3.0

roll_stability=1.23

yaw_stability=2.0

elevator_trim_effectiveness=2.00

aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.2

rudder_trim_effectiveness=0.8

_________________________________

 

Beech king air 350

 

[flight_tuning]

cruise_lift_scalar=1.121

parasite_drag_scalar=.7

induced_drag_scalar=.75

elevator_effectiveness=1.000

aileron_effectiveness=1.813

rudder_effectiveness=0.790

pitch_stability=3.5

roll_stability=1.23

yaw_stability=1.553

elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.173

aileron_trim_effectiveness=0.853

rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.021

__________________________________

 

This is freeware and is not intended for profit of any kind.

Feel free to distribute freely as long as it's as freeware only.

Happy flying!

 

End Quote.

 

Maybe you can try this settings to.

I really wonder what the most realistic tuning is for the Baron 58: the above ones?, the Carenado settings ?, yours ?

 

^_^


With kind regards,

 

Bart S.

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Hi Bart

 

Again thx for the info. I noticed changes in the settings with all the axis, but for me it's only the pitch response I seem to have trouble with. Roll and yaw seem ok but I will definitely give these settings a try. I suspect there's a delicate balance between the elevator effectiveness, pitch stability and elevator trim effectiveness to get the "perfect" response. Unfortunately there's a huge number of possible combinations available to try out. Add in the FSUICP4 slope parameter and one has even more.

 

Another annoyance (and one that actually may be the root of my problem) is my Saitek Pro Flight Yoke is not that smooth. It's nice and smooth in one continous action but in a turn for instance when I have have to make very minor pressure adjustments the yoke is not that smooth. There's resistance and then it lets go and now there's too much back pressure and trying to adjust the other way the same thing occurs - a miniscule plate tectonics type of action.

 

However, the changes I've made definitely improve the response.

 

cheers, Al

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It's nice and smooth in one continous action but in a turn for instance when I have have to make very minor pressure adjustments the yoke is not that smooth. There's resistance and then it lets go and now there's too much back pressure and trying to adjust the other way the same thing occurs - a miniscule plate tectonics type of action.

 

My older CH yoke had the same problem. A bit of silicone based lubricant on the shaft helped a lot. It wasn't perfect, but it was better. Of course, CH Products did not recommend this, and would get irate on forums when someone suggested it. My new CH yoke has a bit more clearance around the shaft and hasn't needed the lubrication. Don't use much, a bit on a paper towel wiped on the shaft will do.

 

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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