X-Plane's superior cloud rendering

[JonRD463 146]

First, I just want to acknowledge that the texturing available in 3PD FSX weather addons is in many ways superior to that available in X-Plane 10. I know people will see this thread title and will want to take me to task. Believe me, there's no argument there.

 

However, the way X-Plane 10 renders the clouds it has overcomes something that has bothered me in the FS* series since wispy clouds were first introduced in, I believe FS2002. If you look to the left or right while flying through a cloud layer, FSX (and previous) will layer the clouds on planes as you pass by to provide that parallax effect of clouds close to you whizzing by and those further away going by at a slower rate. The problem is that the rendering engine will have the clouds farther away layered over the ones that are closer to the aircraft, and the effect is that of the nearby clouds slipping behind/under the farther clouds. Now, in the grand scheme of things, does this affect the way an aircraft flies? No, but it does create an immersive disconnect and has always been a pet peeve of mine.

 

In XPX, clouds properly overlap in your field of view based on their distance, creating a smooth parallax effect. I cranked up my clouds to 100 and made a quick video to demonstrate what I mean. Forgive the slight chop as higher cloud settings eat away frames, and Fraps takes at least 25% of them when recording.

 

 

Notice how, despite a lack of REX-like texture fidelity, the overall effect is much more realistic than FSX (IMHO, of course).

[FIVE-BY-FIVE 453]

nice demonstration of the clouds, I also fly xp10 with 100% cloud puffs and it looks great!

[Muskoka 104]

They do look very nice when run at 100%, I've tried it myself, but that's far from a reasonable soloution to an otherwise very poor weather system. Most people have to run at 50% or less, even thats way too high for many, and at those settings they leave quite a bit to be desired.

 

You can see the ground still when above a solid cloud layer, you get this ridiculous "mushroom of cloud" that extends for a few miles around the aircraft, when entering a cloud layer you get the total white out effect, I could go on.

 

Can they look nice, yes, are they anywhere near ready for everyday use, far from it. Keep at it Austin....please, or better yet lock it down for a while so 3rd part developers can make some much needed addons.

 

Just to add, and please please people don't take this the wrong way, but in FSX (DX10) with Opus weather, FEX textures at even 1024 (I run 4096), clouds on 3d and at max distance (because I can), the XPX weather and cloud system have a long way to go and can't compare. Can it be as good, sure, is it close, no. Could it be as good with addons, sure, are they available, no. It's day will come, it's not there yet. It has potential, but hasen't been realized....yet.

 

Ok, that's the opinion of a "glass is half empty" guy, you "glass is half full" folks can carry on. ^_^

 

Edit: I suppose it's not fair to say that without posting a screen shot or two. I'll post one later when I fire up my game system, and you'll say, "gee, I guess he was right". :smile: And, no, I won't crank it up just for a screen shot, not my style, I'll post what I see in a normal flight, everyday. But you have to do that in XPX, not many can run at 100% clouds, and keep other settings reasonably high, they can't. I'll show you a screen shot in XPX with clouds at say 40% where I imagine the majority run and it will not look very good, for the reasons I stated above. Heck, some users have reported here they run with clouds at 0, if I recall correctly.

[GoranM 3,762]

Just a quick bit of input.

When flying through cloud, in a real aircraft, it is a literal white-out.

I'm talking about if you don't keep your eyes on your instruments, within 20 seconds, you'll be completely disoriented, and in all likelihood, in a steep turn without even realizing.

[Rocky_53 1,566]

Nice demonstration...

[LAdamson 240]

Just a quick bit of input.

When flying through cloud, in a real aircraft, it is a literal white-out.

I'm talking about if you don't keep your eyes on your instruments, within 20 seconds, you'll be completely disoriented, and in all likelihood, in a steep turn without even realizing.

 

Of course, these days. there is the joy of using well made solid state auto-pilots. Not the junk that still often exists in older aircraft. Mine would even do an automatic 180 degree turn, if the button is pushed.

[Muskoka 104]

Just a quick bit of input.

When flying through cloud, in a real aircraft, it is a literal white-out.

I'm talking about if you don't keep your eyes on your instruments, within 20 seconds, you'll be completely disoriented, and in all likelihood, in a steep turn without even realizing.

 

Maybe that's why I end up upside down in the Duchess, starring out the window trying to see through the clouds with a grilled cheese sandwich in one hand, and a drink in the other. Must work on my flying skills. :huh:

[Muskoka 104]

Here's some comparison shots. Same flight in both, out of CYXU, real weather in XPX 10.2 Beta 11 64bit, OpusFSX in FSX DX10. Aircraft are the lovely BeechCraft Duchess (thanks Goran), and in FSX the BeechCraft Turbine Duke.

 

XPX very high settings, no hdr (would really kill frame rates) clouds are 150 (that's my highest) and 40, the range most are probably using for performance reasons. The clouds in XPX are the "Cloud HD v2" which are 1024 and 2048. The clouds in FSX are FEX, 1024 to give an even comparison of look and performance. All sliders full right, water scaled back a bit as well as traffic, use UT2.

 

System is listed in the side bar, triple monitor, shots resized to post here.

 

CYXU runway 15 FSX.

 

 

 

CYXU runway 15 XPX.

 

 

 

Enroute FSX.

 

 

 

Enroute XPX Clouds set at 150 - Weather depiction is incorrect, conditions were scattered. Opus got it right. XPX looks nice, but it's wrong, and look at the fps, 16, are you kidding, nice for a screen shot, nothing more. FSX pegged on 30 fps, never moves.

 

 

 

Enroute XPX clouds set at 40, more common setting. Better, at least it's scattered. Although you get a ring of cloud around the aircraft, thinning below. The exact opposite to the ground where you get a "mushroom" of cloud. FSX cloud base is visually even everywhere. XPX fps are a lot better at this setting, but it looks wrong for the conditions.

 

 

 

Another Enroute FSX.

 

 

 

Another XPX clouds at 40.

 

 

 

One final FSX enroute.

 

 

 

You judge for yourself, they both look nice. At this point I prefer FSX, granted that's with addons. The weather depiction in XPX needs a fair bit of work, and to get the clouds to look like FSX your going to be crawling along, or turn all your settings down. Who wants to do that, not me.

 

Glen

 

Edit: The point being, XPX clouds in my opinion are far from "superior" to FSX, I would say worse. They look nice, but to get them to look nice is going to kill your system. I think what really hurts the look of XPX clouds, is the weather system. It is to be blunt, poor. With an addon such as Opus for example, where your getting proper cloud coverage and clouds to the horizon as you do in FSX, then perhaps XPX would look just as nice. Does it now, I don't believe so.

 

The dreaded mushroom effect when on the ground, the gaping hole below while in flight, and the fact that under cloudy or overcast conditions your clouds don't extend to the horizon, really kills it for me. But I still use it everyday as well as.....

[BilboBaggins 82]

It's always a balancing act. The advantage the XPX system has is that it can be improved, and will scale in both simulation granularity and rendering capability over time.

 

Barring giant leaps forward with P3D, the FSX tech is frozen in time.

[Muskoka 104]

It's always a balancing act. The advantage the XPX system has is that it can be improved, and will scale in both simulation granularity and rendering capability over time.

 

Barring giant leaps forward with P3D, the FSX tech is frozen in time.

 

Don't dispute that one bit. Was only addressing the "now", not the future, and the comments from the original poster. Does it have potential to be "far" superior, sure, is it now, not in my eyes.

[woweezowee 10]

xp10.clouds.do.NOT.move.with.the.wind - and that's a major flaw whatever way you look at it.

[tf51d 284]

Barring giant leaps forward with P3D, the FSX tech is frozen in time.

 

Let's not start the FSX is dead crap again! It's anything but dead. Just the last year, we had new Ground support utilities, new weather engines, new camera systems, new ATC, ,RAAS, I can go on. Let me know when XP10 has all that! Both XP10 and FSX have open architecture as long as developers continue to support them the capabilities for each will continue to expand, and I don't see that changing anytime soon!!!

[LHookins 3,102]

The problem is that the rendering engine will have the clouds farther away layered over the ones that are closer to the aircraft

 

While I've seen Z-order problems with clouds, they're quite rare on my system with FSX. Your video looks good, but while watching it I was wondering if it was FSX or XP.

 

If the Z-order problems have been totally eliminated in XP, that's a good thing.

 

Hook

[BilboBaggins 82]

 

Let's not start the FSX is dead crap again! It's anything but dead. Just the last year, we had new Ground support utilities, new weather engines, new camera systems, new ATC, ,RAAS, I can go on. Let me know when XP10 has all that! Both XP10 and FSX have open architecture as long as developers continue to support them the capabilities for each will continue to expand, and I don't see that changing anytime soon!!!

 

Agreed! FSX is thriving, and certainly not dead to me. . And yes, fortunately it is getting lots of outside developer support, there's something new almost every week.

 

I'm just sympathetic to XPX's ambitions and don't want to drown the baby, especially as apparently a patent troll is making life difficult at the moment.

 

So, encouragement to all, and let's enjoy this stuff!

[CarlosF 1,234]

turn all your settings down.

 

You probably have roads set to max. My specs cannot be compared to what you have and I fly with clouds set at 70% with no less then 30 fps.

Try everything to max and set roads to default and see what happens.