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Bob Scott

Is stable accelerated flight a PMDG 777 design criteria?

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The 747-400 certainly does need more management. However estimating when tank to engine switch will be isn't hard. I look at how much more fuel is in the inboard tanks than the outboards, divide that by total fuel flow, and that gives me an estimated time in hours until the switch.

 

It's not a problem if you miss the switch, as you can take fuel from the outboard tanks only for a while.


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QTR flies their -200LR's and -300ER's to OMDB. It's only a 30 minute flight.

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My first flight will probably be ORD-MIA or down to DFW, after that I'll be flying my usual routes with a pond hop maybe once every month or so.

My first flight will be something short, such as EGKK–LSGG, even though the B777 is not used for this flight in real life.

 

QTR flies their -200LR's and -300ER's to OMDB. It's only a 30 minute flight.

When I really lack time, I fly the B747 on LSZH–LSGG. I believe the time required to complete ground operations is greater than that of the actual flight (approximately 25 min). Nevertheless, it is extremely fun, as the manual-to-automated flight ratio is about 1:4, and there are constantly actions to perform.

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There have been several threads with shorter flights in the 777.

 

Remember:

Just because it is large, or has the capability to fly longer routes, doesn't mean that it always does.

 

The issue isn't so much the coding of the 777 as much as it is the ability of your computer to do its number crunching. Think of it this way: you're given 30 seconds to run a complex calculation, and then you must recalculate it all over again. Then, someone randomly takes that away and only gives you 5 seconds to run that same complex calculation. At some point, you're going to get overloaded and start to drop the ball. If those calculations are driving the stability of something and they start to get screwed up, then things start to get unstable.

 

For what it's worth, take your system and try and run the default Cessna on AP with time acceleration, and then keep upping the rate. Your max rate will be different from the next person's, because each computer can only handle so much.

 

Time acceleration is the worst thing anyone has ever added to the sim. If you can't fly it, don't fly it. That goes for weather, route length, route complexity, or aircraft type.


Kyle Rodgers

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Time acceleration is the worst thing anyone has ever added to the sim. If you can't fly it, don't fly it. That goes for weather, route length, route complexity, or aircraft type.

 

I must disagree. I don't regularly have time to do a 12 hour leg. I still enjoy planning the entire flight (fuel, w/b, wx etc). There are certain routes that I really enjoy that are long-distance. It's still fun doing the whole deal, but just eliminating part of the very long cruise. It's definitely not a bad thing as you suggest, just that some of us can't actually do an entire long haul in real time.

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Dana Palmer

KJAC

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Remember:

Just because it is large, or has the capability to fly longer routes, doesn't mean that it always does.

Thank you for recognizing this fact!

 

Time acceleration is the worst thing anyone has ever added to the sim. If you can't fly it, don't fly it. That goes for weather, route length, route complexity, or aircraft type.

I must disagree. I don't regularly have time to do a 12 hour leg. I still enjoy planning the entire flight (fuel, w/b, wx etc). There are certain routes that I really enjoy that are long-distance. It's still fun doing the whole deal, but just eliminating part of the very long cruise. It's definitely not a bad thing as you suggest, just that some of us can't actually do an entire long haul in real time.

I do not think time manipulation is the worst thing anyone has ever added to the sim, but do not enjoy performing real-time long-haul flights, either.

 

I am in favor of maximum practical immersion/realism, so I almost never consider time manipulation during regular operations, but also recognize that we must occasionally utilize unrealistic simulator features and sacrifice immersion/realism in order to fit real-world commitments and time limitations better.

 

Basically, I only rarely use time acceleration/deceleration to satisfy real-world constraints, not to manipulate a flight and its characteristics so they maximize my enjoyment: I view FSX as a realistic simulator with potential, not a game for pure entertainment.

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Question for the pure simmers : when do you fly a 12-15 hours haul ?

 

I mean, I assume most of you have a job that occupies 8-10 hrs per day, then there is the time dedicated to sleep, then the time to eat, take care about other stuff / children / car insurance / showers / buy a newspaper / sex / watching movies / check the email etc...

 

So, when do you fly these long hauls ?

 

And, which is you strategy against FSX crashes ?

 

Thx

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Time acceleration is the worst thing anyone has ever added to the sim. If you can't fly it, don't fly it. That goes for weather, route length, route complexity, or aircraft type.

 

We all have our rights for our own opinion, however my opinion is the opposite, even though I avoid using time acceleration. I love to fly long routes, for example from EHFK,EHAM,EDDM, KJFK and PANC (thank you Aerosoft and FSDreamteam ) to KJFK, KSFO, KLAX, PANC, VHHH, WSSS, OMDB etc. I usually try to fly during weekends, departing early morning or late in the evening, use autopilot through the cruise (whole day or night) and do something else. Now that's not realism either to do something else during the cruise and miss important eicam messages in case of defect with the plane -> therefore I had to disable technical failures. Why to do this?

 

Well, I have a life also, other than FSX. I have a family which requires attention and I don’t want to listen my wife nagging me all the timeJ. Someone might suggest to change wife, maybe that would help, but then again, quess not…

 

Anyway, not accelerating, I avoid system crashes and autopilot errors etc and can still land at a time which is suitable for myself and for my family. Yes, its not realistic, but hey, as long as you are playing FSX, that is not realism either. I quess many of us have the same situation, so you have to compromise.

 

It is good to have options for different scenarios and that means we can decide what to choose and what suites us the best at that time. So what im trying to say ( I quess) is that you don’t have to use the acceleration if you don’t like to, but let other do so if they like to (no offense).

 

I cant wait the T7 to arrive so I can make a maiden flight from EFHK to KSFO with full pax and payload and with heavy lift off from icy runway in a low visibilityJ

 

Happy landings everyone!

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Just stating my opinion. As always, I never said you couldn't do it, or that they shouldn't have added the feature. In my opinion, however, it made the simulator into more of a game. It also ends up making an otherwise stable aircraft unstable, for the reasons I mentioned before. As your average simmer rarely ever knows where to place blame, it often (as in the case of this thread) gets pinned on the aircraft developer, instead of one's own system. Granted, the complexity and number of calculations the system has to run is dependent on how much data the developer throws into the simulation, but in the end, the stability of the sim is more dependent on your system's ability to process the data, and less on the aircraft developer's code wizardry.

 

I just run my flights as I run my real world flights.

I can't press B to set the altimeter in my Cessna, so I don't use it in the sim.

I can't accelerate my 5 hour flight down to DTS from BCB in a C207, so I don't use it in the sim.

 

Like I said earlier: if I don't have time to do the flight, I don't do it. I don't see the point. Why else would you be simming a long flight? If you wanted a flight in a short time frame, fly a shorter route. Large aircraft do IAD-ORD all the time. I've been in a 777 from IAD-MIA. Essentially what you're doing with time compression is treating everything like a regional flight. Takeoff, gear up, gear down, land. If that's what you want, the JS41 is excellent, and the flight legs on that are rarely ever longer than 1.5 hours.

 

In the end, I guess I just see it as trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Put more simply, I see it as cheating.

 

If that's what you need to do, then that's what you need to do, but I don't see you or your sim, so in the end it really doesn't matter to me what you do on your own.


Kyle Rodgers

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Guess it should be implemented, so for those user who wants to use it, they could but i dun uses it often. It will make the game meaningless. Fly a shorter flight mb? Like Singapore to Thailand. Board a singapore 777 from SG to vietnam (hochi minh)

 

So maybe its a good choice for starters? Some might not have the time to do a 7h flights.I am a 15year old teenager and i love aviation.

 

I never ran FSX more than 4h. To me 3h is max. But every landing made flying interesting this is wad kept me flying.

 

So the decision is for PMDG to choose, either with or not this plane will be priceless :)

 

Take a break :) look out the window watch television or maybe sleep?

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when do you fly a 12-15 hours haul ?

 

Occasionally.

 

And, which is you strategy against FSX crashes ?

 

If I'm flying, I save the flight every 15 minutes or so. I remember flying the MD-11 SYD-HNL and FSX crashed about an hour or so out of HNL.

 

I mean, I assume most of you have a job that occupies 8-10 hrs per day, then there is the time dedicated to sleep, then the time to eat, take care about other stuff / children / car insurance / showers / buy a newspaper / sex / watching movies / check the email etc...

 

 

I don't have much of a life and I'm a night person (I fall asleep anywhere between 9PM and 7AM) so I fly mainly during the night.

 

So maybe its a good choice for starters?

 

I would recommend starting on the transcon or less flights. When you get into LH/ULH is when things get more complicated.


Kenny Lee
"Keep climbing"
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Just stating my opinion. As always, I never said you couldn't do it, or that they shouldn't have added the feature. In my opinion, however, it made the simulator into more of a game. It also ends up making an otherwise stable aircraft unstable, for the reasons I mentioned before. As your average simmer rarely ever knows where to place blame, it often (as in the case of this thread) gets pinned on the aircraft developer, instead of one's own system. Granted, the complexity and number of calculations the system has to run is dependent on how much data the developer throws into the simulation, but in the end, the stability of the sim is more dependent on your system's ability to process the data, and less on the aircraft developer's code wizardry.

Not sure about it making it more game like. Most full flight sims have a time acceleration feature. Sim time being very precious it enables crews to fly routine parts of flights quickly so as to get from one training scenario to the next. The alternative is a reposition, which is more disruptive.

 

I'm not sure how FSX actually behaves during time acceleration, and how much a designer can do to get around the stability problems. As PMDG uses a lot of custom modelling they should have a better chance at making it work smoothly. In full flight sims the iteration rate is not increased, but position and altitude are updated at a more rapid rate. This gets round the stability issue, as the sim itself is still flying normally. There are issues with keeping the FMC and IRS functioning properly, but these have special software installed, known as simsoft, which helps handle such discontinuities.

I just run my flights as I run my real world flights.

I can't press B to set the altimeter in my Cessna, so I don't use it in the sim.

I can't accelerate my 5 hour flight down to DTS from BCB in a C207, so I don't use it in the sim.

 

Like I said earlier: if I don't have time to do the flight, I don't do it. I don't see the point. Why else would you be simming a long flight? If you wanted a flight in a short time frame, fly a shorter route. Large aircraft do IAD-ORD all the time. I've been in a 777 from IAD-MIA. Essentially what you're doing with time compression is treating everything like a regional flight. Takeoff, gear up, gear down, land. If that's what you want, the JS41 is excellent, and the flight legs on that are rarely ever longer than 1.5 hours.

 

In the end, I guess I just see it as trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Put more simply, I see it as cheating.

 

If that's what you need to do, then that's what you need to do, but I don't see you or your sim, so in the end it really doesn't matter to me what you do on your own.

I think it's a case of to each their own. I don't use acceleration either, but I wouldn't regard someone who does as being unrealistic.


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In my opinion, however, it made the simulator into more of a game.

 

In the end, I guess I just see it as trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Put more simply, I see it as cheating.

 

Of course, when a pilot is in a real-world Level-D sim for training, only one of the 3-4 sim profiles flown during a recurrent training course involves simulating an entire flight from start to finish. The rest are partial flight profiles. Good thing the FAA doesn't catch them cheating while playing games in the sim! :P


Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System1 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS @ 6.0GHz, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
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Of course, when a pilot is in a real-world Level-D sim for training, only one of the 3-4 sim profiles flown during a recurrent training course involves simulating an entire flight from start to finish. The rest are partial flight profiles. Good thing the FAA doesn't catch them cheating while playing games in the sim! :P

 

Last I checked, you're not paying $150+/hour for the sim, plus the pilot's and examiner's hourly rates in your home sim...

Big difference.


Kyle Rodgers

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