I will try and keep this short.In FS9 the Airbus jets seem to ne real good about having the little joy sticks (left handed in the captians seat, using your right hand in the co-pilots seat)rather than the floor mounted yokes. From looking around the various web sites its seems Airbus uses this tech in the "fly by wire" jets. Now Boeing also has fly by wire in most of there new commercial jets (I am sure there are many more planes as well, I am trying to keep my question short).So, as Airbus moves more and more to the short joysticks to each of the Captians and co-pilots seat, in there fly by wire commercial jets, will Boeing follow, has anyone heard any thing? If so will there be updates for FS9?Second. as regional turbo props, (ATR, Saab, B1900, and others) move into "glass panels" and into fly by wire controlls will they start using the short joysticks on each of the Captians and co-pilots side? If so will there be an updare for FS9? If the Airbus joysticks work so well, as Regional T-props move more towards "fly by wire" will they adapt the (Airbus joystick setup in the real world, and will we see this reflected in FS9 and or future versions of MSFS.I have no offical statments, but have heard rummors about the regional T-Props going to the joysticks as the planes in this catagory become mmore and more fly by wire.Thanks.

When the changes you propose will take place, if ever, fs9 will no longer be your current sim. And who cares about default fs aircraft anyway? Such developments can easily be reflected in addons.The aviation business is rather conservative, and bringing changes about tend to take a lot of time. The Airbus FBW system was introduced in the eighties, and still there are a lot of opiniated people debating it, even though it is has been in use for some 15 years with few mishaps. I doubt that Boeing will start using the side stick solution, though it should probably be an easy modification to their newest models. Most pilots prefer the yoke, as that is probably what they have used in the past and feel comfortable with. -

I was asking about future versions of MSFS in an effort to understand if they would follow Boeings lead (if Boeing ever used side sticks).You mentioned down the road that FS9 would not be the sim, well I assume that the newer MS versions might be. If so will they model the defualt planes, ie... if they include the new Airbus 380 (in future MSFS versions)will they attempt to model the side stick?I realize that Boeing and MSFS ahve a long relationship and I am glade its with an American copmany. I just wander in the real world will aircraft buildiers trend towards side sticks or stay with the floor yokes.I am just sitting around trying to understand if there will be a standard in the industry.Thank you.

>I just wander in the>real world will aircraft buildiers trend towards side sticks>or stay with the floor yokes.I don't think so. There is no such trend visible either in business or larger aircraft. Airbus is the only one that will probably use side sticks for some time to come.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Sidesticks are essentally a simpler solution than a yoke. Since there are no longer mechanical links between the steering device and the control surfaces in modern airliners the choice of steering device becomes a question of preference rather than tecnical necessity. The stick is probably easier and cheaper to install, and makes the cockpit more roomy. The philosophy of airbus is that the pilot will only fly manually for a few moments of the flight anyway, so why install a heavy yoke? Whether or not the stick gives the pilot better control can be debated, but the most maneuverable aircraft, such as fighters and aerobatic planes all use sticks, so it can't be all bad. Also note that the stick in an Airbus doesn't work and feel like your desktop joystick. For example if you make an attitude change the airplane stays at the new attitude when the stick is neutralized.-

>>I just wander in the>>real world will aircraft buildiers trend towards side sticks>>or stay with the floor yokes.>>I don't think so. There is no such trend visible either in>business or larger aircraft. Airbus is the only one that will>probably use side sticks for some time to come.>>Michael J.Cirrus. Lancair. To name but two. With the increasing use of flat panel displays and the need to access those displays via keybaord buttons, and the impending arrival of Highway In The Sky technology I see a much wider future use of sidestick controllers.Allcott

Can you post a link or pics of the planes you mentioned and the side sticks.(What ever the rules allow in this forum in reguards to pics and stuff)?Also, are you suggesting that the trend is for more and more as Fly by Wire is incorporated that more and more builders will start using sidestiks. If so in the real world I hope that future versions MSFS refect this for there defualt aircraft. Thank you for your help.Mark.

>Cirrus. Lancair. To name but two.Two - anything else ? Sorry guy these are the ONLY two airplanes and "tiny" ones. My post above is limited to business and larger airplanes. Say anything above $1,000,000 value. And there is absolutely zero indication that either Highway-in-the-sky or flat panel displays have anything to do with side stick controllers (Cessna, Mooney, Piper..). And fly-by-wire has also nothing to with such side-sticks. Boeing's 777 is fly-by-wire and has traditional yoke - albeit a smaller one. Side-stick is purely a design choice having nothing to do with aircraft avionics.Ok, Eclipse 500 micro jet is being fitted with side stick controls. But whether this airplane will ever be available in commercial use - we will see.Mark, you can easily find Cirrus and Lancair pics on internet if you search for these two names.Michael J.

Michael,First, thank you for your response. I did not mean for this to "ruffle" any feathers, and I do not mean that yours are I am trying only responding to make this real simple.Please, everyone this next paragraph is just to spell out a few minor understanding on my part. I am not sending this post to debate the exact perfect definition of Fly by Wire or Glass Cockpit.After the paragraph please read the (what I hope makes things simple)My understanding is the reason (or one of them) going to side sticks was that "Fly by Wire" "tech" made it very easy to move into the side stick concept. I realize you can have Fly by Wire and use floor mounted yokes. Since all the control devise dose is send a signal to a computer that in turn sends the signal to the next computer or what ever that reads the signal being sent and then the particular control surface moves accordingly.That said there is what I am trying to understand. Let

>So, as we call it Fly By Wire (for discussion here) and the>Fly by Wire starts to make its way into smaller and regional>aircraftMark, right now Fly-by-wire is VERY expensive and certainly not economical to be put in an airplane with a price tag less than say $30 mln. >Another question I had was the difficulty (if any) of>transitioning from a yoke (floor or dash) to a side stick. I don't think there is any difficulty in it.>What if your left handed to you have a better chance of being>the captain, LOL.I am right handed-only and I have absolutely no problem with using the stick in my left hand. As a matter of fact I purchased Saitek Cyborg 3D USB joystick that gives me this left-hand capability. I got so used to holding stick in my left hand that it actually feels funny when I try to hold it in my right hand. The reason why I had no problem with adjusting to the left-hand stick actually comes from my real-life flying experience. A most common arrangement when you fly say Cessna or Piper is that you have your left hand on the yoke and right hand on the throttle (during all my flight training I don't recall having my right hand on the yoke even once !). And whether this left hand is on the yoke or a stick - makes little difference - I hope you see my point. Yes, if someone played a lot of first-shooter games or military-fighter sims with zero prior experience to civilian aviation then there may be a difficult transition to left-hand sticks.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Interestingly, sticks are also used in the Boeing C-17 transport plane. Although these are mounted centrally and not on the sides (like the Airbuses)http://www.bredow-web.de/ILA_2002/Transpor..._17_Cockpit.JPG

Central mounted sticks are also favored on many small experimental airplanes, also Diamond has them. But these are not really "sticks" since they are floor-mounted. I did not know about C-17. By the way, they look more like floor mounted columns as well since you have these classic cut-outs in the seats. For me the stick is something that you just move with your wrist while your elbow can be resting - you can't do it with a long column.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Probably not anytime soon. Most pilots I've heard actually prefer the yoke and control wheel over the side sticks. Many pilots complain that the side sticks give little, if any, input to the pilot as far as what the aircraft is doing. They have to actually look and watch to know. But the control wheel and yoke has more "feel" to it, and the pilot knows what the airplane is doing even if he's not watching anything. I have heard of no plans for boeing to convert. If I were boeing, I'd be looking to "generalize" the cockpits for all their jets. IE: much like the 757/767 are the same. I think all their planes should use the same cockpit. 737,57,67,77,47, on down the line. I think they are slowly heading that way. Would save the airlines loads of $$$$ training for type ratings if all boeing cockpits were the same. Myself, I have only boeing's on my sim for big jets. No airbuses at all...I prefer the 737 most of the time if I'm not flying my oft flown Lear 31a... MK

Thanks.In relation to "training for type ratings" that makes me think of SW flying as many 737's that allowed for another "stand by pilot" to jump right in in case the sceduled pilolt was unable to make his/her run. (I realize the terms are used lose, but I remember the atticles in the Wall St Jr in relation to the cost controlls this made possible).Also, on Boeings web site, under the Multi Media area you will find the various modern commercial aircraft listed by modle types. Under the 737 (the latest 2 or 3) the test pilot goes thru the changes and really spends a bit of time to drive home how the "Glass Cockpit" will allow a 737-900 pilot to go over to a 777 with minimal new trianing. I dont know the specifics, but the piont he made was that this was another way for the airlines to cut overhead.Thanks agian.Mark.

Boeing is way behind Airbus on the cockpit commonality issue. Airbus designed their whole family of FBW airliners in a relatively short span of time, so it was easy to make cockpit features common. Boeing, on the other hand, haven't really designed any brand new production models in ages except for the 777. For the ones that are upgrades of older models, such as the 737NG they gave commonality with the old aircraft priority, which is why the NGs have the 70's style steam overhead panel. I can't really see that Boeing should be able to introduce a cockpit commonality throughout their whole product range in less than a decade or two.-