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BimmerCop

Curved vs Flat? (3 projectors @ 225 degrees)

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Hello guys,

 

I'm reaching a point in my build where I need to make a decision and it must be made ASAP!

 

I currently have a 225 degree wraparound curved screen and just 1 projector. Going to purchase the other 2 next week.

 

While having this 1 projector (BenQ MW814ST), I've been able to mess around with it and I have seen a couple of things that really irritate me.

 

First is the fact that I have to buy 3 licenses of image warping software, one for each display, since I will be using 1 PC per projector for the visuals.

 

Second is the fact that warping the image is making the image fuzzy. I've tried demos of all the big players when it comes to warping software and all of them will render a blurried/fuzzy picture. This on top of the fact that my resolution (1280x800) is not the sharpest to begin with!

 

Third is the fact that since the screens are curved, and on top of the fuzzy warped image, the focus/sharpness is not uniformed at all. This is expected since you are projecting a flat image onto a curved screen, so the screen distance will vary to the lens across the screen.

 

My question is...

 

Are there any drawbacks in going with 3 flat screens for my projectors instead of curves screens?

 

My 225 degree arc is about 21.6' long, so I'm guessing if I want to cover the same distance/wrap, with flat screens, all 3 screens have to be about 86" wide. Is this correct?

 

Is 225 degree even possible with 3 flat screens?

 

I'm thinking that with the 3 flat screens, I will definitely save on money (no need for warping software) and the image will remain sharp and clear.

 

What I don't know is if immersion is lost by going with flat screens.

 

Any help on this before I start tearing down my curved screen?

 

Thanks in advance, guys and gals...

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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I have once been in a (static) B737-800 simulator with four flat screens. The immersion was absolutely perfect. If I had room enough in my simroom I would also go for three flat screens and not a curved one. I took a couple of lessons in a B737-800 with three projectors and a curved screen. The immersion was also very good, but I also noticed that the projected scenery was not as sharp as with my own projected flat screen at home.

 

Greetings and succes with your decision making,

 

Theo.

 

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I have once been in a (static) B737-800 simulator with four flat screens. The immersion was absolutely perfect. If I had room enough in my simroom I would also go for three flat screens and not a curved one. I took a couple of lessons in a B737-800 with three projectors and a curved screen. The immersion was also very good, but I also noticed that the projected scenery was not as sharp as with my own projected flat screen at home.

 

Greetings and succes with your decision making,

 

Theo.

 

Hi Theo,

 

Yes, that is exactly my issue: sharpness, or lack of!

 

What good is it to have a nice curves screen, when everything looks so blurried and on top of that, spend lots on money on warping software.

 

If immersion is the same on flat screens, then I guess I will go for that instead. At least the image will be nice and sharp all the time.

 

I guess my biggest concern is now figuring out the angles and lengths the flat screens need to be, in order to still be able to project a 225 degree image.

 

Any idea? Or was my math above correct?

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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I can remember seeing a topic 'somewhere' about this calculations, but where was that 'somewhere'? I have some links that may be helpfull to you.

 

A calculator from BenQ about screen sizes and distances:

http://www.benq.com/product/projector/calculator/index.htm

 

A tutorial from Ivar Hestnes about a 225 degree projection:

http://www.flightdeck737.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Visual-system-tutorial.pdf

 

I hope these can be helpfull for you.

 

Greetings,

 

Theo.

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I can remember seeing a topic 'somewhere' about this calculations, but where was that 'somewhere'? I have some links that may be helpfull to you.

 

A calculator from BenQ about screen sizes and distances:

http://www.benq.com/product/projector/calculator/index.htm

 

A tutorial from Ivar Hestnes about a 225 degree projection:

http://www.flightdeck737.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Visual-system-tutorial.pdf

 

I hope these can be helpfull for you.

 

Greetings,

 

Theo.

 

Thanks, buddy... I have those two and some more. I am at work now but get off in about 45 minutes. Can't wait tobget home and start "visualizing" everything. Hahahaha My wife thinks I'm going crazy. I will walk into my sim room and stand there in one corner and just stare at the room in silence. Hahahaha Jusy visualing how to do things.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Don't know if the following will be useful? I have three NEC WT610 short throw Projectors. My screen size (actual picture) is 19'6" X 5'6" on three flat screens. I once built a curved screen with very expensive software, and couldn't get on with at all, so went back to using flat screens. Luckily I was able to obtain a refund on the software. I am not familiar with the Projectors you mention, but the WT610 sits on the floor only 30 inches from screens, and uses a number of mirrors to project the picture. One thing to bear in mind is that the outer two Projects require a small adjustment to the picture as the mirrors warm up to line up with center picture. I find this has to be done at start up, and a couple of times during flight. I think even using curved screen software would present this particular problem. From my sitting position within my 737-800, I can't see top or bottom of picture, but out of side windows could see edge of picture. I got around this by building some flat 'screens' with large perspex mirrors glued on. These 'screens' are on castor wheels, and can therefore be easily wheeled into position, and the angles altered as require. I now in effect have complete wrap around vision, and the fact that the side mirrors are giving a reverse reflected image really isn't that noticable in ones proliferal vision.

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Hahahaha My wife thinks I'm going crazy. I will walk into my sim room and stand there in one corner and just stare at the room in silence. Hahahaha Jusy visualing how to do things.

 

Hi Efrain...fyi just sent you PM with a couple thoughts on this.

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Hello guys,

 

I'm reaching a point in my build where I need to make a decision and it must be made ASAP!

 

I currently have a 225 degree wraparound curved screen and just 1 projector. Going to purchase the other 2 next week.

 

While having this 1 projector (BenQ MW814ST), I've been able to mess around with it and I have seen a couple of things that really irritate me.

 

First is the fact that I have to buy 3 licenses of image warping software, one for each display, since I will be using 1 PC per projector for the visuals.

 

Second is the fact that warping the image is making the image fuzzy. I've tried demos of all the big players when it comes to warping software and all of them will render a blurried/fuzzy picture. This on top of the fact that my resolution (1280x800) is not the sharpest to begin with!

 

Third is the fact that since the screens are curved, and on top of the fuzzy warped image, the focus/sharpness is not uniformed at all. This is expected since you are projecting a flat image onto a curved screen, so the screen distance will vary to the lens across the screen.

 

My question is...

 

Are there any drawbacks in going with 3 flat screens for my projectors instead of curves screens?

 

My 225 degree arc is about 21.6' long, so I'm guessing if I want to cover the same distance/wrap, with flat screens, all 3 screens have to be about 86" wide. Is this correct?

 

Is 225 degree even possible with 3 flat screens?

 

I'm thinking that with the 3 flat screens, I will definitely save on money (no need for warping software) and the image will remain sharp and clear.

 

What I don't know is if immersion is lost by going with flat screens.

 

Any help on this before I start tearing down my curved screen?

 

Thanks in advance, guys and gals...

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

I just finished my setup with 3 x (1280 x 800 pixels) ultra short throw (BenQ MW851UST) projectors + 3 x 87" flat screens. Total FOV=210 deg. I use 1 FSX/WidevieW server for 2D panels (2 x 27"monitors) and 3 FSX/WideVieW clients for scenery only. IMO this is the only way to combine high frame rates (30 fps) with high quality FSX settings. I still use warping software for each of my 3 clients since I found it very difficult to 100% mechanically align the projectors. I used a laser device for that but still it is difficult to get a perfect mechanical edge butting. I use Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2 for warping (ref. http://fly.elise-ng.net/index.php). Due to the flat screens the corrections needed are minimal but still there is slight loss in sharpness but I can live with it. I found the software very easy to use.

 

Overall I am quite satisfied with my setup and the immersion is great (of course if I have had the money I would have gone for 3 x 75" Samsung thin bezel LCD LED TV's).

What I still miss is real-time weather synchronization on the clients, so hopefully HiFi (AS2012) will come up with a solution for that.

 

Server PC: Intel Core i7 2600k at 4.5 to 4.7 MHz + Nvidia Geforce 680 (could be a lighter one too)

Client PC's: Intel Core i5 3570k at 4.3 to 4.5 MHz + Nvidia Geforce 660 (MSI 660TF)

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Hi Efrain,

 

Just an addition to what I wrote above: I would not recommend a FOV larger than 210 deg. since the space available between the side screens becomes quite small. Moreover, my experience is that with 210 deg. there is plenty of immersion. Just my opinion. For a perfect alignment in FSX (Prepar3D) the zoom factor must be 0.4312 and WideViewAspect=FALSE for a VOF=210. In WidevieW you set the heading angles: -70, 0 and 70 deg. for the left, centre and right screen. Ok, still possible to do it all on one PC but at the cost of frame rate, particularly at heavy add-on airports/scenery and real-time weather.

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I have done things an unusual way with my setup.I have a 747 'ish' enclosed cockpit(narrower than real 747) in a 9ft x 9ft room so had to do things very differently as I would have to have spent large amounts of money on ultra ultra short throw projectors to get views to cover left/right peripheral vision as there is little more than 12-14 inches spare on each side of the sim.

 

1) Infocus Ultra short throw projector for the main fwd view(9 ft wide),

 

2) 37 inch lcd tv for the left/left fwd view pressed up against the left side perspex window.It more than covers peripheral vision for the left/left fwd view .Fortunately as the window pillars are wide on 747's, where the tv bezel 'appears' to meet the left corner of the fwd projector this is hidden totally by the window pillar.This really does work well and the 'join' is invisible and completely believable and immersive.My mind does not notice that the right bezel of the lcd is actually 3ft away from the wall for the main fwd view

 

3) Mitsubishi normal throw projector for fwd right/right view (the right side view only goes back far enough to cover half of the side window,but it is enough to see 90 degrees right when entering /crossing a runway.

 

You do slightly notice the point where right main fwd view meets the fwd right /right side view as it's at right angles but once you're moving and concentrating it is not a problem,and configuring wideview to the correct angles gives a very accurate view.

 

The biggest drawback to my set up is that It is totally set up visually for the Capt side and I need to be roughly in the same seat position every time, a first officer would get a totally unuseable view,but as I always fly solo it's no problem for me.Also it is very time consuming setting up the views with Wideview and the a/c cfg.I also have to change the zoom (+- on keyboard) for the left and right pc's view once airborne and back again on descent but it takes a couple of seconds and I've memorised each zoom requirement for the different stages of flight (the main fwd view pc does not need adjusting).This is the drawback of unmatched projectores/lcd's, but with a 9ft x9ft room I had few options.

 

regards Jim

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