Well yes, I don't see anything, even P3D, coming down the line that can hold a candle to FSX or warrant a refocus.

What I think that most of the people who criticize Win8 have never even tired them in person...by the way... nobody is forcing you to install Win8. You have 7, Vista, XP among others and be merry with them. And stop criticizing us who have and use Win8 without issues.

 

I am not here to criticize your success and enjoyment of it.  However, I think a lot of us did try it.  I virtualized it for a bit and just can't hang with the UX/UI philosophy.

 

The topic starter, however, makes the point that market uptake and market share are reflective on a product that many aren't warming to.  However, it is not the case that ALL have a problem with it.  I actually used Vista and never had an intense problem with it.

 

Great comment!  This is such a classic example.  Changing the licensing for the new version of Office is another step in the same direction.

Oh this... so much this.  I want Office 2013 as a dedicated installer and not some service.

I've read & heard nothing but the results of 4 camps in this article as usual. These threads are common all over the Internet & in person with most individuals I know:

 

Camp 1.  People jaded by Microsoft or people who like someone pointed out thought the greatest thing in the world ever was Apple to come out with their product offerings starting with iPod/iPhone/iPad and even before.  So anything AFTER this by Microsoft will either fall on deaf ears because it doesn't have an Apple branding or they are unwilling to even faithfully spend any time with it because after all, Apple can do no wrong and what virus did they every give to anyone?  Besides, money fixes everything and I and them have plenty of it for them.  Funny part is the same people will bash Microsoft because most people got viruses was because you could download & install whatever you wanted from wherever you wanted unlike Apple's business model!

 

Camp 2.  Microsoft products were used because that's what they had to use at home or work but when it came to having the worldwide support of people being able to develop some mystical OS addition or didn't like to have to give money to a corporation then Linux was their baby.  Apple's OS architecture is good to have a Unix like kernel but theo Apple camp is too religious and closed off and costs money so Google/Linux is all they will care to hear about.  Not to mention now that the OPEN Android platform is becoming laden with the plagues that the same people would bash Microsoft for.

 

Camp 3.  You've used Microsoft products all along and dealt with whatever it is you've had to deal with and somehow managed to get through the rough spots without much concern over it.  Whatever Microsoft has put out it's fine either way because you picked up a Dell or a PC at a mega store and had Office on it or can install software you gathered through the years and it does what it needs to.  You don't really have any interest in higher priced offerings by Apple or the web browser by google when you can have a whole PC for around $400.

 

Camp 4.  You've followed technologies for a long time and also use Microsoft products at work as well as built your own PC or a quite a few (which is not to say that the other 3 camps didn't). You've installed and used Linux distros but found them limited in what you can actually install and use it for since you are not starting your own internet provider. You've used Mac OS because either another family member had one or you created your own hackintosh but finding that their is little use to the playschool interface.  You may have even used Logic Pro/Final Cut Pro and either keep it around for that or find that the window counterparts are actually a bit more responsive so forget the Mac OS idea all together.  You've used Flight Simulator and want to get the most out of your experience by installing newer hardware and tweaking settings.  You also realize that Windows 8 as a natural progression from previous OS's and allows for what you've been used to and now offers ANOTHER avenue of software which you can take or leave.  You have a faster desktop experience with Windows 8 and are happy to live there and check into the full screen weather/news apps every now and then as well as see what new time wasting apps have been developed.  You may even use an iPhone/Android/Windows phone &/or tablet but as far as a desktop goes their is something familiar and something new.

 

 

I am in Camp 4 and am proud to be.  Prepar3d and FSX work BETTER on my machine in Windows 8 than they did on fresh installs on Windows 7.  I never had the big gripe with issues like people have claimed with Windows ME or Vista but hey maybe it's just because I knew better on what a good piece of software was or wasn't and how it may affect the OS.  I have Windows 8 for the last year and it is fast/fluid and is definitely not necessary to have touch.  I also have Windows 8 on a touch screen and for me gives me another option to choose how to use it.  I have seen and heard ALL THE SAME REGURGITATION by many co workers who are basically set in their ways and completely uninformed or just could care less to even try.

 

The MODERN UI program menu works PERFECTLY FINE AND FLUID without any touch!  I can scroll left and right or I can just start typing to find what I wanted not just on the desktop but in most searchable apps, not to mention I can click and drag groups of applications or individual tiles where I want them.  I don't need to spend my time in full screen apps if I don't want to and I am right at home on the desktop but I enjoy the option of having an app store just a window key away.

 

So to sum it up, a big part of the reason that Microsoft is not growing with Windows 8 is YOU!  You have a personal vendetta against them or you could care less because you're a fair weather fan and have fallen in love with Apple or Google or both but at the same time you still want to hold a place for Flight Sim!

 

You insult most people's inteligence with this crap.

All well and good but my most recent buy was an Asus tablet running Android 4.1.  Looking at the numbers the problem for MS is WinRT/phone.  Desktop will share some code and soldier on like FSX as a legacy project.

 

scott s.

.

I've got Win7 x64 installed on my desktop and everything runs pretty nice. I recently had to put my laptop in for repairs to a faulty power jack and I also had some larger HDDs fitted. I purchased one of the discounted Win8 Pro licenses last November and took the opportunity to install it on my newly repaired laptop. To be honest I'm not liking the new "Modern UI" and have installed one of the plethora Start Menu replacements and now my Win8 boots straight to the desktop.

 

Running Win8 desktop it's just as snappy and fast as Win7 always was... The only disappointment for me was Battle of Britain 2 Wings of Victory doesn't work - it crashes after a short while. Hopefully the BDG crew will make a fix, but it might be a while as none of them have Win8.

 

Other than that I'm pretty happy with Win8 but to be honest there's no real compelling reason to upgrade from Win7, in my case it was curiosity. It's certainly not the monstrosity that most people make it out to be. I actually dual booted Win8 with WinXP (something some ill-informed Win8 detractors will tell you is impossible) for a week or so. I was struck by just how clunky and backwards WinXP felt after using Win7 for so long.

 

The common theme that I see in every Win8 thread is lots of hyperbole and quite often accompanied by some unhelpful misinformation.

Something to keep in mind is that the computing landscape is changing. Once upon a time CPUs were making huge jumps in performance from one generation to the next and everyone benefited. From 50MHz to 100, then 200 and eventually breaking through the 1GHz line, everything you did on the computer got faster, whether it was gaming, word processing or email. However, now that we're well 1GHz, few people see any benefit from a new computer. Most people just wait until the one they have breaks before buying again. This is the primary way the majority of home users move up to the latest release of Windows. Outside of communities like this one, few people actually buy the retail or upgrade versions of Windows (OEM licences make up something like 75-80% or more of Windows sales). Add in the dismal state of the economy in most places, and there is little reason for people to rush out and buy the latest Windows PC.

 

And on top of the above, people are finding that there are alternatives to the traditional desktop/laptop PC. Unless the program you need to run is Windows only, like FSX, people are finding that Macs, iPads, iPhones, Android tablets and smartphones can accomplish many tasks, thus lessening the need for the latest Windows PC even more. One could argue that the smartphone is more of a personal computer than a desktop or laptop ever was. And of course there is the Internet where one just needs a reasonably modern web browser to access just about everything. It doesn't matter what the underlying OS is. I'm pretty sure this scares people in Microsoft. In the 90s some predicted that the Internet would break the Windows monopoly. While those predictions didn't come true then, it is starting to look more and more like they could in the not so distant future.

 

All of this is what Microsoft is trying to adapt to. If they just stuck with selling Windows XP, as many seemed to think they should, they would certainly suffer the same as Kodak did, and the one that Blackberry (née RIM) is desperately trying to fight off.

 

I do agree with those that think Ballmer needs to step down, but I don't think they necessarily need Mr. Gates to come back. He seems quite keen on his philanthropy work. There are, however, plenty of other smart people in Microsoft and Silicon Valley (and plenty of younger minds with fresh ideas).

Id Rather Be Flying, on 26 Mar 2013 - 10:20, said:

Camp 4. You've followed technologies for a long time and also use Microsoft products at work as well as built your own PC or a quite a few (which is not to say that the other 3 camps didn't). You've installed and used Linux distros but found them limited in what you can actually install and use it for since you are not starting your own internet provider. You've used Mac OS because either another family member had one or you created your own hackintosh but finding that their is little use to the playschool interface. You may have even used Logic Pro/Final Cut Pro and either keep it around for that or find that the window counterparts are actually a bit more responsive so forget the Mac OS idea all together. You've used Flight Simulator and want to get the most out of your experience by installing newer hardware and tweaking settings. You also realize that Windows 8 as a natural progression from previous OS's and allows for what you've been used to and now offers ANOTHER avenue of software which you can take or leave. You have a faster desktop experience with Windows 8 and are happy to live there and check into the full screen weather/news apps every now and then as well as see what new time wasting apps have been developed. You may even use an iPhone/Android/Windows phone &/or tablet but as far as a desktop goes their is something familiar and something new.

 

 

I am in Camp 4 and am proud to be. Prepar3d and FSX work BETTER on my machine in Windows 8 than they did on fresh installs on Windows 7. I never had the big gripe with issues like people have claimed with Windows ME or Vista but hey maybe it's just because I knew better on what a good piece of software was or wasn't and how it may affect the OS. I have Windows 8 for the last year and it is fast/fluid and is definitely not necessary to have touch. I also have Windows 8 on a touch screen and for me gives me another option to choose how to use it. I have seen and heard ALL THE SAME REGURGITATION by many co workers who are basically set in their ways and completely uninformed or just could care less to even try.

 

The MODERN UI program menu works PERFECTLY FINE AND FLUID without any touch! I can scroll left and right or I can just start typing to find what I wanted not just on the desktop but in most searchable apps, not to mention I can click and drag groups of applications or individual tiles where I want them. I don't need to spend my time in full screen apps if I don't want to and I am right at home on the desktop but I enjoy the option of having an app store just a window key away.

Camp 4 describes my experience almost word for word.

 

I've had plenty of gripes over the years with Windows like most everyone.

However I have no doubt that Windows 8(desktop), is their best so far.

 

A little worried about the future of FS'ing and where it's heading.

It's obvious desktop computing is evolving into a niche.

Everyone is moving to Smartphones and Tablets.

 

My computing and FS experience has also evolved from the desktop to a comfortable sofa, iPad, and big screen TV.

I use my FSX PC for everything, as well as a media center set box.

Simplicity seems to work for me. TrackIR, xbox360 controller.

Most important of all. "Carbonite Backup".

For both personal files as well as mirror imaging to a 2tb external drive.

This gives me several images to choose from and if anything goes amuck, I'm back 100% in less than 4 hrs.

 

Cheers

Microsoft refuses to get it:

 

http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/windows-blue-confirms-desktops-days-are-numbered-215240

 

I blame Steve B., that guy really needs to go...

Microsoft refuses to get it:

 

http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/windows-blue-confirms-desktops-days-are-numbered-215240

 

I blame Steve B., that guy really needs to go...

 

I'll only post once here, since I just want to voice my opinion instead of getting involved in a long discussion which will wind up exactly like I'd Rather Be Flying predicted, with a couple of sides and no-one willing to give in. I'll stick to this: It is you who doesn't seem to get it...

 

The Windows 8 desktop experience is nearly identical to Windows 7... Just more efficient in a lot of small ways, and boosted performance. By adding one little piece of software you will never have to spend any time in the Modern UI.... EVER. Basically, you, as skilled computer user can keep your entire workflow and user experience intact by making some small tweaks. There's not much for them to fix there.

 

On the other hand, Microsoft has innovated and added an entirely NEW user experience across multiple platforms, which is extremely easy to use for less tech-savvy people. On top of that, it ties in with the old & faithful desktop interface whenever people so desire. And they are dedicated to improve this new user experience as well.

 

I really don't see how that's wrong. From my point of view it's more people who take opinions voiced in the media as their own and vow to forever stick to 3.11/95/XP/Vista/W7/whatever who are on a dead track. Yes, I've been through all those OS's and my fair share of Linux distro's and Mac/Hackintoshes, and W8 is by far the best up to this point.

 

Microsoft refuses to get it:

 

I think Microsoft has got it and does know  the direction it's taking with Windows in the future.

I'll only post once here, since I just want to voice my opinion instead of getting involved in a long discussion which will wind up exactly like I'd Rather Be Flying predicted, with a couple of sides and no-one willing to give in. I'll stick to this: It is you who doesn't seem to get it...

It's apparent some are just slow to the big picture here so I'll make a few points:

 

1. Metro is crap in a work environment plain and simple. Are they expecting everyone to ditch PC's? Touch screens at a standard cub desk doesn't work at least not today. The super large touch screens where the computer is housed behind the screen (this could actually work in an office) are a little over priced these days. Laptops and smaller devices like to walk off in allot of work places. Metro is too much for allot of older users in a corporate environment. Trying to get them to click on specific corners on the screen is confusing especially with dual monitors.

 

2. Apple style closed environment. Many developers are affected by how MS wants titles to be marketed and sold in this new environment (Minecraft for example). The way in which our community trades ideas, products, and services don't work in the W8 arena. Many gaming developers (the so called target market when MS does anything FS) are going with other OS's for their titles. This new MS model has left us with a product like Flight which is dead now (amazing how fast that happened, 8/Blue could follow). FSX is seven years old now and FS9 10 years old. What does W8 and the XBOX store have to offer this community?

 

3. UAC, need I say more. I've ran into so many apps that need this crap turned off, not possible in W8. It's amazing some have gotten FSX and FS9 to run in that environment (rest assured not all add-ons work).

 

4. Closed environment. This may sound redundant but MS wants to control all added content in this OS much as possible which affectively shut FS down in the way we've known it.

 

I can go on a little further but I'm at work. Someone said it best above, in all my years of using Windows I see no reason to upgrade nor does the place I work for or most other businesses my friends work for. There's no new FS to get the latest OS/computer for, users at my job either hate it or it's not compatible with many apps, and it's more designed for home use/tablets/phones than anything else.

 

MS can try to force this but it's going to be a slow migration. There's so many people using XP let alone 7 with a perfectly running PC just like I still use FS9. MS used to work for our dollars now they expect to just force products on people by cuttings things like backwards compatibility and basic tried and tested features. It's not working on many levels as people have options if nothing else than to stick with what they have hence my subject heading to this thread.

 

What bothers me is the future of our hobby. This gadget revolution is not conducive to our hobby. Doing away with custom systems for static devices where you can't update the sound/video card or add memory. We end up only able to use something like Flight which was their purpose in making it. Be careful gloating over something like Windows 8, it in many ways could spell the death nail for how we've enjoyed computing up until this point. X-Plane and Linux might very well be the future for our hobby...

I'll only post once here, since I just want to voice my opinion instead of getting involved in a long discussion which will wind up exactly like I'd Rather Be Flying predicted, with a couple of sides and no-one willing to give in. I'll stick to this: It is you who doesn't seem to get it...

 

The Windows 8 desktop experience is nearly identical to Windows 7... Just more efficient in a lot of small ways, and boosted performance. By adding one little piece of software you will never have to spend any time in the Modern UI.... EVER. Basically, you, as skilled computer user can keep your entire workflow and user experience intact by making some small tweaks. There's not much for them to fix there.

 

On the other hand, Microsoft has innovated and added an entirely NEW user experience across multiple platforms, which is extremely easy to use for less tech-savvy people. On top of that, it ties in with the old & faithful desktop interface whenever people so desire. And they are dedicated to improve this new user experience as well.

 

I really don't see how that's wrong. From my point of view it's more people who take opinions voiced in the media as their own and vow to forever stick to 3.11/95/XP/Vista/W7/whatever who are on a dead track. Yes, I've been through all those OS's and my fair share of Linux distro's and Mac/Hackintoshes, and W8 is by far the best up to this point.

 

Very well said!

 

@ Dillon I am sorry that Win8 is not working for you, but that doesn't mean that it is not working on everybody else's computer. And myself personally never had a problem with the UAC, in Vista, 7 or now 8.   

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, or exchange something that works well. Maybe you, the people don't agree with MS agenda/policy/endeavors but they are not stupid. Evolution of OS cannot stop because people don't like the new "stuff" aka big colorful tiles that change their content every few seconds. So get over it. Win 8 is here, Win 8 Blue is following in a few months, Office 2013 and Office 365 is here also will be updates soon with this "blue" thing. Evolution is inevitable, whether you, I, we like it or not. 

I played with Win8 a little today and was satisfied in finally locating the shutdown option, which seems hidden, along with everything else useful.  I was completely over it after about 10 minutes. Microsoft is in serious trouble if they think that this is what people want.  Luckily we all have Win7 which is by far the best OS Microsoft ever developed imo. 

 

It's apparent some are just slow to the big picture here so I'll make a few points:

 

And some are just slow to realise that Windows 8 can be used without a touch-screen.

MS has thrown out the baby with the bathwater with Windows 8.

I bought it before Jan,and have tried it 3 times.There are 2 major issues.

1) Joystick disapearing,which MS refuse to acknowledge.

2) BSOD,s are virtually impossible to fix without going to the recovery mode - the tradiional

F8 option has been removed.