Air India Pilots Did WHAT!?!?!?!

[shamrockflyer 647]

Haha, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of quality trained personnel who have previous experience but the ones I know who are on both 777 and 738s, yes I'm quite sure a skilled AVSIMmer will be able to match (perhaps even exceed) the knowledge of an active member in the airline.

Wow. It amazes me that safety concerns aren't priority in such a dangerous job for in-experienced people. Its hard to believe what you have just said in your previous posts, but it doesn't surprise me to be honest.

[psolk 3,040]

Ro,

 

As much as I dont condone a lot of what goes on in Indian Aviation, I would like to also take this with a bag of salt as the reporting is done by Mumbai Mirror and Times Of India. If you think that the AI pilots had such blatant disregard for safety, procedures, common sense, etc, let me tell you MM and ToI have blatantly greater disregard for the veracity of their reporting, especially in matters to do with Aviation.

 

Until and unless the actual truth be known, let us give the AI crew "some" benefit of doubt. I will try and see if I can find out what actually happened.

 

@@Luke M, lets not get into a debate about Eastern and Western World. I have a friend who is a TRE at 9W and

when he was doing some suitability checks for a couple of European Captains on the NG simulator, he was shocked that, one of the "Captains" had no clue on how to program a route manually nor enter waypoints throughthe LEGS page. And this is just one incident.

 

Regards,

 

Dinshaw Parakh.

Director General Arun Mishra of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), confirmed that all four employees had been suspended. "Following a safety violation, the airline has already suspended the people in question. We are conducting a inquiry into the matter," Mishra told Mumbai Mirror

 

DGCA already confirmed...  No benefit of the doubt required.

 

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Strictly speaking the benefit of doubt must also be given during an ongoing inquiry (until the final report is disclosed).

 

In any way I second that NO debate about Eastern vs. Western world: Too many Western airlines coming to my mind that don't want to be discussed here ...

[Spook 96]

i was refering to the mentality of the eastern ways, not airlines :unsure:

[psolk 3,040]

Strictly speaking the benefit of doubt must also be given during an ongoing inquiry (until the final report is disclosed).

 

In any way I second that NO debate about Eastern vs. Western world: Too many Western airlines coming to my mind that don't want to be discussed here ...

 

Funny, I think of it like innocent until proven guilty which is a total misnomer in a lot of cases...  If you are truly innocent until guilty why are you in jail during trial (usually because the evidence is so overwhelming or you are a risk)     If the pilots are entitled to benefit of the doubt then why did the airline state they were already suspended following a safety violation?   It sounds to me like the airline has already assigned guilt and now it is being investigated by the Civil Aviation Authority.  No different than United suspending two pilots and then it escalating to the FAA...  The airline already assigned guilt, now it is a larger investigation.

 

I could just be interpreting it wrong though.

[BillW 210]

At least the 2 flight attendants were really good looking.

[mgh 89]

The phrase innocent until proved guilty is often misunderstood. All it really means is that in court the accused doesn't have to prove innocence. The prosecution has to prove guilt.

Suspension doesn't imply an assumption of guilt either. It a common sense approach when there's reasonable suspicion. ‌ In this case, Would you want to fly with a pilot who's subsequently been proved to have disregarded safety so flagrantly?

[psolk 3,040]

The phrase innocent until proved guilty is often misunderstood. All it really means is that in court the accused doesn't have to prove innocence. The prosecution has to prove guilt.

 

Suspension doesn't imply an assumption of guilt either. It a common sense approach when there's reasonable suspicion. ‌ In this case, Would you want to fly with a pilot who's subsequently been proved to have disregarded safety so flagrantly?

Thanks Gerry, I think it is just the wording of the article.  Had it said following a reported safety violation that is pending investigation   opposed to "Following a safety violation the airline has already suspended the people in question  it could be read very differently.  To me the latter reads as though they have already determined there is a violation and assigned blame.  I think it is just me being pedantic over the wording though, probably too picky on my part...

[John_Cillis 2,406]

wow..

 

I could say so much more about the eastern world...and its ways...but i like being able to post.. -_-

 

Eastern ways are different, and can appear almost alien at times since many of us are steeped in western culture.  But it's still a rich culture.  Since I work in IT, most of my peers are from India or countries nearby.  Their work ethic is second to none.  They have a willingness to get the job done at all costs--something we sometimes lack in the western world where we crave our leisure time.  I think there's something to be learned from this.  I can't help but admire such a work ethic.  The Air India example is an not an exception.  I know of pilots here in the States who've flown past their destinations due to distractions in the cockpit, not to mention attempting to fly their aircraft while intoxicated. 

 

John

[captdini 3]

Director General Arun Mishra of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), confirmed that all four employees had been suspended. "Following a safety violation, the airline has already suspended the people in question. We are conducting a inquiry into the matter," Mishra told Mumbai Mirror

 

DGCA already confirmed...  No benefit of the doubt required.

Dear Psolk,

 

The DGCA has suspended them following a safety violation is established. But what the violation is has not been specified by the DGCA. Just because the MM and ToI have come up with their story as to what happened, that is not necessarily the truth nor the reason the pilots have been suspended. Besides, suspension is based pending an inquiry. Lets wait and see what happens. That is why I say, give the benefit of doubt.

 

I am pretty sure that there may be some underlying truth to some sort of negligence or lax behaviour by the pilots but not as grossly exaggerated by this article.

 

Finally, innocent until proven guilty has more to do with the prosecution establishing guilt beyond reasonable doubt rather than a suspect/defendant being innocent or otherwise.

 

Regards,

 

Dinshaw

[Manny 1,293]

, low wages f

Indian Pilots have been paid pretty much the same the world over.. low wages cannot be it.

 

Air India is a govt program by the Leftist congress party of India. A single family has been in power in India 90% of the time since 1947. Air India is like their semi feudal airline for this family and their henchmen. Air India runs with heavy loss yet its been held up by Tax payer money. This airliner needs to be dismantled.

 

There are wonderful private airlines in India. Jet Airways is an Indian airlines which is in the top tier of airlines.. so its not like the Indians cannot run an airliner to acceptable standards.

 

Its really about entitlements and govt run operations.

 

 

 

ToI have blatantly greater disregard for the veracity of their reporting, especially in matters to do with Aviation.

 

 

TOI is = TOIlet newpaper.

 

Ha Ha!

 

I was reading an editorial in TOIlet about this King Air that came from Karachi to Mumbai where the American Ambassador was on it.. There was smoke in the aircraft, so the pilot landed the aircraft and exited the runway and then got out and he and his passengers walked  to the terminal leaving the smoking plane on the runway exit. That was the right thing to do...  there could have been a fire... But the  TOIlet decided to skew the report by saying..how arrogant the Americans are in disobeying the air traffic controller and what not.

 

 

 

i was refering to the mentality of the eastern ways

 

I can write about the non eastern ways too.  :angry:

[z06z33 763]

Are you implying that almost any AVSIM member could do a better job on a RW Air India B777 than a number of those RW Air India Captains?!?   :blink:

Hes right since alot of Avsim members are pilots and a few are airline pilots

 

At least the 2 flight attendants were really good looking.

Agree!

[zmak 331]

this is what can happen even when both pilots are right there in the cockpit!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKy93atWQ0I&feature=player_detailpage

[Sky Trail 13]

Hey Guys !

 

I am deeply ashamed of my country, First rape then this ! way to ruin a country and an airline's reputation. Please understand that we are a billion with a million retards. sleeping in the cockpit doesn't sound so bad after all.

 

Having money and bribing to cockpit was a norm until a few years ago in India, not any more, the rules are stricter, mind you thats only for the new pilots coming into the system. The old ones are still flying, a generation of them in fact. It was my dream to fly for Air India when i was a kid, Now i would rather have that airline scrapped and a new one should be in its place !

 

And BTW, the Indian CPL conversion exams are a ###### to pass too !! one of the toughest exams in the world to pass !!

Thanks

Thejus Mathew

[krazyk 157]

 

 

Having money and bribing to cockpit was a norm until a few years ago in India

 

Was this before or after the DGCA found out that a sizable amount of pilots in AI had their certificates forged ?  :lol:

 

I feel bad for the few working in AI who are legit, hard working members. Their reputation has now been tarnished, thanks to a crazy few and the airline itself.