TBM 850 Review

[Knoxpilot 0]

Hey guys, I just finished up my first flight in the new TBM 850 and I thought that I would share some notes that I took during the flight.  First off, this is a review from a real world prospective.  It's important to note that your simulator experience is exactly that...YOUR experience.  My experience is infused with real world training and recurrency, so my opinion of FS aircraft may differ from your own, and I will aslo focus on the real world application of the aircraft rather than computer performance and FPS.  All I know is that my computer is mean enough to run it, other than that, I can give little technical insight.  A quick background on my "expertise"  :huh: of the aircraft.....I am the assistant chief pilot for a corporate flight department of 4 (and growing) aircraft types based out of Knoxville, TN; including a Premier 1A, Pilatus PC-12, TBM 700/850, and SR22.  I also have a Beechjet type rating from a previous job.  I have been very patiently awaiting the release of this Carenado aircraft for training purposes.

 

PROs

*Beautiful exterior model (as expected with Carenado aircraft)

*Proper system modeling include: Electrical, Pressurization, and Fuel

     -I was very pleased to see that the fuel Auto/Man select switch is actually functioning with only one little hick-up I'll get to later

*The aircraft flies and feels very similarly to the actual aircraft when hand flying.  Steep turns, stalls, and maneuvering feel accurate and the appropriate power settings give the expected flight profiles.  And be forewarned, that last notch of flaps WILL make you balloon intensely.  I suggest trimming nose down as the last notch comes in at the 500ft call out, in the real aircraft and the sim!

 

CONs

*Systems*

     -Ignition

          - Incorrectly modeled.  Being that the AUTO and ON are modeled exactly the same.  The only way to get rid of your IGNITION annunciation is to turn it completely off, which is completely WRONG.

     -Inertial Separator

          -Engaging the INERT SEP switch will move a flap inside the engine intake to protect from FOD damage and icing.  One should see fluctuation in ITT and Torque when the switch is manipulated and the flap is in motion.  Unfortunately, by flipping the switch in the sim, it simply turns the INTER SEP annunciation on and off.  It actually changes absolutely NOTHING with the aircraft system.  It's a shame since it's kind of an important system in any turbo prop aircraft.

     -Aux Boost Pump

          -Similar to the ignition issue, having this on AUTO simply turns it on.  It is impossible to turn the annunciation off without turning the whole system off.  In the real world, this means a grounded aircraft!!  The ONLY light you should have on during take-off is a yellow INTER SEP light.

     -Auto/Man fuel select

          -While the system actually seems to work (not exactly sure if the proper tank switch times are down right), when going from AUTO to MAN, you should get a yellow AUTO annunciation making the pilot aware that the AUTO tank switch is now inop.  The sim doesn't show this.

     -Pitot/Static heat

          -No annunciation indication that the system is off, as there should be.

     -Pulsing Landing Lights

          -Completely inop

     -Overhead Gear Warning/Overspeed Aural Warning Test

          -Completely inop

     -G1000 :wacko:

          -Well.....yes, you CAN manually manipulate a flight plan from within the unit, BUT....unfortunately you can not add departures or arrivals.  Only waypoint to waypoint.  This is a step in the right direction but is still VERY far from being remotely 1/2 way functional.  Very simplified port of the Cessna 182T G1000.  Think I'm kidding....go into the the MFD (AUX page, tab 5) it says that the airframe IS the Cessna 182T  :lol:.  They literally pulled it out of one sim and pasted it into the TBM, put a fancy TBM home page on it and called it done.  They would have been much better off modeling a TBM 700 or early model 850 with the older avionics and allowed for the RXP import, similar to the King Airs and PA46

     -Start UP Procedures

          -This one really bothers me.  During the start up procedures, BEFORE taking the condition lever to low idle, one should observe a few things happening to the engine.  Most notable is: Starter-Ignition-Oil pressure rising-and Ng increasing.  The lack of an increasing Ng would indicate a locked up core and adding fuel would most definitely induce a hot start.  The sim shows NO Ng increase until you add fuel with the condition lever.  This is very poorly modeled.

 

So there you have it.  I could see using this model for air work and practice approaches, but as an accurate cockpit procedural training device, it leaves a lot to be desired.  Maybe some patches could be on the horizon?  If anybody has any questions or comments, feel free to post or PM.

 

Thanks

 

Seth Evans

 

[tttocs 301]

Thanks much for the review, Seth.

 

Really nice to hear they did so well on the flight modeling, but as with a few other Carenado planes, some of these issues are just a mystery.  The annunciation and separator not affecting performance issues sound just like P46T, yet they modeled this behavior correctly on the C90.  Some of the more complex things I get, but these are relatively simple errors.

 

The G1000?  Expected.  Disappointing, but expected.

 

Thanks again,

 

 

Scott

[flyerkg 62]

Thank you Seth. This is definitely an expert review. I also hope that some of these systems will be fully simulated in future developments.

[LeeL 272]

Wow the 182 and G1000 thing is quite astounding....

[KZ1R 5]

Thanks for the review, Seith. Frankly I am not surprised to read about all the 'hiccups' in the model. As it has been seen on a number of occasions, Carenado does not pay due attention to details related to important aircraft systems and releases products constantly failing behind expectations of serious flight simmers. The reason as it seems maybe the poor project management practices or the deliberate choice of not paying attention to systems fidelity.

 

I guess whatever the issue it resides with the Carenado's leadership.

 

IMHO I will refrain from buying this product from them at least for the time being until they come up with patches for the issues you have described. Sad to see they don't learn from their previous experience!

 

Regards,

Mike

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Hey guys, I just finished up my first flight in the new TBM 850 and I thought that I would share some notes that I took during the flight.  First off, this is a review from a real world prospective.  It's important to note that your simulator experience is exactly that...YOUR experience.  My experience is infused with real world training and recurrency, so my opinion of FS aircraft may differ from your own, and I will aslo focus on the real world application of the aircraft rather than computer performance and FPS.  All I know is that my computer is mean enough to run it, other than that, I can give little technical insight.  A quick background on my "expertise"  :huh: of the aircraft.....I am the assistant chief pilot for a corporate flight department of 4 (and growing) aircraft types based out of Knoxville, TN; including a Premier 1A, Pilatus PC-12, TBM 700/850, and SR22.  I also have a Beechjet type rating from a previous job.  I have been very patiently awaiting the release of this Carenado aircraft for training purposes.

 

PROs

*Beautiful exterior model (as expected with Carenado aircraft)

*Proper system modeling include: Electrical, Pressurization, and Fuel

     -I was very pleased to see that the fuel Auto/Man select switch is actually functioning with only one little hick-up I'll get to later

*The aircraft flies and feels very similarly to the actual aircraft when hand flying.  Steep turns, stalls, and maneuvering feel accurate and the appropriate power settings give the expected flight profiles.  And be forewarned, that last notch of flaps WILL make you balloon intensely.  I suggest trimming nose down as the last notch comes in at the 500ft call out, in the real aircraft and the sim!

 

CONs

*Systems*

     -Ignition

          - Incorrectly modeled.  Being that the AUTO and ON are modeled exactly the same.  The only way to get rid of your IGNITION annunciation is to turn it completely off, which is completely WRONG.

     -Inertial Separator

          -Engaging the INERT SEP switch will move a flap inside the engine intake to protect from FOD damage and icing.  One should see fluctuation in ITT and Torque when the switch is manipulated and the flap is in motion.  Unfortunately, by flipping the switch in the sim, it simply turns the INTER SEP annunciation on and off.  It actually changes absolutely NOTHING with the aircraft system.  It's a shame since it's kind of an important system in any turbo prop aircraft.

     -Aux Boost Pump

          -Similar to the ignition issue, having this on AUTO simply turns it on.  It is impossible to turn the annunciation off without turning the whole system off.  In the real world, this means a grounded aircraft!!  The ONLY light you should have on during take-off is a yellow INTER SEP light.

     -Auto/Man fuel select

          -While the system actually seems to work (not exactly sure if the proper tank switch times are down right), when going from AUTO to MAN, you should get a yellow AUTO annunciation making the pilot aware that the AUTO tank switch is now inop.  The sim doesn't show this.

     -Pitot/Static heat

          -No annunciation indication that the system is off, as there should be.

     -Pulsing Landing Lights

          -Completely inop

     -Overhead Gear Warning/Overspeed Aural Warning Test

          -Completely inop

     -G1000 :wacko:

          -Well.....yes, you CAN manually manipulate a flight plan from within the unit, BUT....unfortunately you can not add departures or arrivals.  Only waypoint to waypoint.  This is a step in the right direction but is still VERY far from being remotely 1/2 way functional.  Very simplified port of the Cessna 182T G1000.  Think I'm kidding....go into the the MFD (AUX page, tab 5) it says that the airframe IS the Cessna 182T  :lol:.  They literally pulled it out of one sim and pasted it into the TBM, put a fancy TBM home page on it and called it done.  They would have been much better off modeling a TBM 700 or early model 850 with the older avionics and allowed for the RXP import, similar to the King Airs and PA46

     -Start UP Procedures

          -This one really bothers me.  During the start up procedures, BEFORE taking the condition lever to low idle, one should observe a few things happening to the engine.  Most notable is: Starter-Ignition-Oil pressure rising-and Ng increasing.  The lack of an increasing Ng would indicate a locked up core and adding fuel would most definitely induce a hot start.  The sim shows NO Ng increase until you add fuel with the condition lever.  This is very poorly modeled.

 

So there you have it.  I could see using this model for air work and practice approaches, but as an accurate cockpit procedural training device, it leaves a lot to be desired.  Maybe some patches could be on the horizon?  If anybody has any questions or comments, feel free to post or PM.

 

Thanks

 

Seth Evans

 

Nice review--thanks Seth.  My experience with many Carenado aircraft is that many buttons in the VC's are simply toggle switches that don't do anything.  I'm not concerned with that so much as I am that the aircraft flies reasonably well.  I have the Beech 200 and was disappointed with its hit on fps.  If this aircraft has the same hit I won't be buying it--my system's too old now.  And I guess with the B200 and Meridian I have single and dual turboprops pretty much covered anyway.  I think a lot of Carenado fans will buy the aircraft, since many fans come from the GA side of the hobby and don't feel a need for the type of sophisticated systems you'd find on a corporate jet or jet transport.

 

I will be checking the screenshots forum for pictures--I hope someone covers both the interior and exterior in depth.

 

Regards,

 

John

[tttocs 301]

I think a lot of Carenado fans will buy the aircraft, since many fans come from the GA side of the hobby and don't feel a need for the type of sophisticated systems you'd find on a corporate jet or jet transport.

 

Hey, John - sorry, but I have to disagree on this one. I'm exclusively a GA guy, but that doesn't mean that accurate systems don't matter to me. My favorite GA planes generally get what systems are there correct or close to correct, particularly those that offer RXP integration.

 

As Carenado has moved to G1000 planes, I've moved away from Carenado. I know there are those who'll disagree, but I also know many who are in exactly the same position as I am.

 

You're right that many will buy who are less picky about systems, but there are airline guys who prefer simpler tubes as well and want to "just fly". Those of us who are picky about GA care about things working correctly too. GA does not mean systems aren't important.

 

Scott

[HawkDsl 50]

 

 

Think I'm kidding....go into the the MFD (AUX page, tab 5) it says that the airframe IS the Cessna 182T

 

 

This is what I have coined as "Carenado-isms".  Sounds like a fun flyer. Thanks!

[Hubinwa 27]

 

 

-G1000
          -Well.....yes, you CAN manually manipulate a flight plan from within the unit, BUT....unfortunately you can not add departures or arrivals.  Only waypoint to waypoint.  This is a step in the right direction but is still VERY far from being remotely 1/2 way functional.  Very simplified port of the Cessna 182T G1000.  Think I'm kidding....go into the the MFD (AUX page, tab 5) it says that the airframe IS the Cessna 182T  .  They literally pulled it out of one sim and pasted it into the TBM, put a fancy TBM home page on it and called it done.

Thank you Seth, an outstanding and educational review albeit not so good news for Carenado nor for serious simmers.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Thanks for this review Seth. Your expertise is really appreciated on this. One fellow I know who also has the Carenado TBM noted that IAS and TAS values at ISA were about 30 to 40 knots off book value. Like me, he too (as well as you) is a RW pilot and we understand aircraft rarely meet actual book values, but this much of a discrepancy seems extreme. Can you comment on what your findings in that area were please? He did tests at 5,000, 15,000 and 25,000 ft and in all cases fell very short of the mark. Again, this was done under ISA conditions.

 

Thanks Seth!

[z06z33 763]

Hey, John - sorry, but I have to disagree on this one. I'm exclusively a GA guy, but that doesn't mean that accurate systems don't matter to me. My favorite GA planes generally get what systems are there correct or close to correct, particularly those that offer RXP integration.

 

As Carenado has moved to G1000 planes, I've moved away from Carenado. I know there are those who'll disagree, but I also know many who are in exactly the same position as I am.

 

You're right that many will buy who are less picky about systems, but there are airline guys who prefer simpler tubes as well and want to "just fly". Those of us who are picky about GA care about things working correctly too. GA does not mean systems aren't important.

 

Scott 

I'm with you seems like to me Carenado doesn't want to put forth the effort to make new gauges instead they just keep reusing the G1000 sad but true the C182T was the last plane I'll ever buy from them unless they go back to the good ole days of steam and great FPS 

[HawkDsl 50]

I'll ever buy from them unless they go back to the good ole days of steam and great FPS

 

Alabeo.com (Carenado's new Steam Fleet)

 

Lots of good 'ol days coming up there.

 

 

Modern planes Rock. I'm hoping they'll do a G1000 G58 Baron next.

[z06z33 763]

Alabeo.com (Carenado's new Steam Fleet)

 

Lots of good 'ol days coming up there.

 

 

Modern planes Rock. I'm hoping they'll do a G1000 G58 Baron next.

I'm old school I guess even though I'm only in my 20's. I'm ready for that Staggerwing should make for some fun cross countys around the PNW though I wouldn't mind a 530 in it. But I'm ok navigating the way the my grandfather did it when he was flying in the 20's and 30's with a wiskey compass and a road map( no such thing as sectionals back in those days)

[HawkDsl 50]

 

 

I'm old school

 

I like some old school... Stood right next to a real stagger last summer... W O W.  

 

 

But... its nice to get modern stuff from time to time.

[tttocs 301]

 

 

Modern planes Rock. I'm hoping they'll do a G1000 G58 Baron next.

 

Modern planes rock just fine.  But a G1000 plane is valuable because of what the G1000 offers.  If it's just pretty pictures with little depth underneath, it's not a modern plane.  I can't do WAAS?  I can't do SIDs and STARs?  The data depicted is years out of date with no way to update?  That's not modern.

 

For me, it's not about steam vs glass.  It's about function - or the lack thereof. 

 

Scott