Cessna 310 and Flight1 anti-piracy

[Guest TimD]

"The way I read the Flight One protection it is not using machine binding and it doesn't prevent you to instal the add-on on another test machine. One or 2 of those things are by default prevented by your protection software."Nope. Works pretty much the same way.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[Guest]

I could not resist buying the Flight1 Cessna310 - and mighty glad I did - it's superb BUT it will not install to my other PC's!I connected a 56k Modem to one of the other PC's, used the reinstall button in the software to reactivate my flt1c310v1.key (also tried my proof of purchase certificate number)but am told no connection can be made to validate the key. I have tried many times (no firewall installed) but still no success and have now left a message on the Flight1 forum. It it such a pity when a great Aircraft is purchased (possibly the best I have ever d/l - freeware or payware)and then the user is required to spend hours trying to use his new purchase on his other Computers - it has spoilt an otherwise excellent product.

[Guest]

>The way I read the Flight One protection it is not using>machine binding and it doesn't prevent you to instal the>add-on on another test machine. One or 2 of those things are>by default prevented by your protection software.>You don't mean your friend's machine so he can "test" it I hope?Because that's what people usually mean when they're talking of "testing" or "backup copies"...

[hangar 660]

Personally, Id rather see payware developers charge me an extra 30% for their products and get rid of all this inconvenience concerning antipiracy. Yep...rather pay $40 for a $30 product...have it on CD and never have to give a thought to using a "wrapper" or enter a credit card# or email address...and id never have to worry about reinstalling my OS or changing my computer or installing the software on a 2nd pc in the house...to me, the piracy features being implemented the past year or 2 in the flightsim market are rediculous...you rarely see this kind of protection in any other market besides flightsim products...very strange too because the flightsim addon market is extremely small...not too many users.It is my belief that payware developers, by incorporating these new antipiracy features, are actually going to hinder/stunt the growth of the flightsim market which they so sorely need to expand...its going to hurt their future alot more than the antipiracy thing, unfortunately because their sales WILL drop the more inconvenient the install/reinstall routines become...but i dont think these guys are considering the long term effects...i think they are simply trying to find a way to turn a part time job into a full time job...but it wont work this way due simply to the fact that even though we all are against antipiracy it is still the paying customer's hand thats being slapped here and somewhere along the way the customers are bound to take a stance for their rights as consumers.I think its a much better business decision to raise the price of the products and "dump" the antipiracy features...youre never going to stop piracy to begin with...all youre doing is hurting the customer, the hobby itself in the long run, yourselves. If you raise the price to help make up for the losses...people will still buy from you as long as your track record proves its worth it, and i think they would be greatful that at least they dont have to worry about keeping track of 20 different keys and email addresses when they reinstall your products. The extra $10 is worth the convenience.Dave

[Guest Bigshot]

I've only bought the eaglesoft jets; but understand they use the flight one wrapper. I think a lot of serious gamers have more than one machine in their house. I have three. I have one dedicated to gaming. It's a lean, mean, gaming machine. In other words, I use another computer for everything other than gaming. My gaming machine is hooked up to the internet via a router and cable modem. It does not have an active email. Just an internet connection. Each machine has its own unique IP address. The eaglesoft jets were downloaded by that gaming machine and installed on that gaming machine. No problems at all. They work fine even if I disable the internet connection to the gaming machine. I doubt that I'd be able to run the jets on two computers at once; but don't really care and probably shouldn't anyway. I'd also bought a Capt Sim plane a while back. They sent me an email activation which I opened on my other computer and copied and pasted the code to a disk and loaded it onto my gaming machine and ran the activation on my gaming machine. Worked fine. I understand they've changed their rules now and am afraid to buy anything else from them because I don't have an active email on my gaming machine or a virus scanner because it's not used for internet browsing.The flight 1 wrapper seemed very simple to me. Just download it with the machine you intend to use it on and have an internet connection availabe to activate it. After that, disable the internet connection if you want. It still works.

[LAdamson 240]

>I think its a much better business decision to raise the price>of the products and "dump" the antipiracy featuresExcellent idea..............Will mean "less" customers & "more" pirates!A what's with the part time job? Just as developer/programmers work for Microsoft full time, the same can apply to 3rd party developers if that's their wish!L.Adamson

[Guest WorkingStiff]

I've been following this anti-piracy discussion with great interest and a fair amount of amusement. Most of the dire predictions about payware seem rather farfetched.After being burned several times over the years I no longer buy any flight simulation software that is available only by download. For example, when Flight1 released their Piper Meridian there were some teething problems regarding both the wrapper and system optimization.Fortunately I had decided to wait and purchased the Meridian when it was eventually released on CD with all the kinks ironed out. It seems to me that the current business model used by developers hinge on creating a buzz about their product; then relying on impluse buying for the first 72 hours after release.Undoubtedly there WILL be problems with this Cessna 310 so I'll just wait until they are corrected, probably made COF2004 compatible, and is available on CD. It wouldn't kill me to wait since I have several other aircraft I can use in the meanwhile....then I don't have to worry about all these silly activation schemes.

[Guest frankcubillos]

Geez y'all. Much to do about nothing.I reinstall frequently (especially with the 04 beta) and have had no issues with the F1 wrapper. If you ever need help they are the friendliest and most supportive and reply quickly (even on weekends!).So sorry the "I reinstall too frequently and that the wrapper is too inconvenient" just doesn't hold water for me IMOHO.The 310 is awesome BTW.http://fsgateway.com/frank/fs9paibeta.jpg

[Guest]

Hi Frank'Geez y'all. Much to do about nothing'Have you tried installing the 310 to another Computer yet?I am not the worlds best when it comes to PC's and software - just your average PC and MSFSim enthusiast who has built a few PC's to keep up with the latest Sims, installed a few hundred Aircraft, (a dozen or more payware)a couple of hundred or more scenery files, many of which are payware and I have never come accross a more infuriating software package to install on another PC. Please note Frank I am not after a 'Blue Peter Badge' for my efforts just explaining that I do have a bit of savvy and experience when it comes to installing FSim stuff but this has got me stumped.The first install on the host PC was easy but try installing to another PC and that's a different matter! I left a help message in the Flight1 Forum this morning - but cannot access the Forum site anymore.I do agree Flight1 are one of the best when it comes to support. (their Cessna421 installed perfectly in my other PC's) and yes the 310 is awesome.It all boils down to this Piracy thing and the poor honest user (that's probably why he is poor ) is the one to suffer!

[Guest TimD]

"It all boils down to this Piracy thing and the poor honest user (that's probably why he is poor is the one to suffer!"Yes, I'm afraid it is the honest segment of the population who end up being the victims of the dishonest. But I think you have to point the finger at the people who have been abusing software privileges over the past few years, not the people who are just trying to protect themselves.As far as suffering goes, all of the developers who are employing protection systems, including Flight 1 and ourselves, are willing to bend over backwards to help you out and make sure you have access to the software as you need it. But please appreciate that unless a developer does something to protect himself, he will simply be forced out of business. Mutual cooperation between people of good will is the key.The suggestion that software developers should simply increase their prices is interesting, but not very workable I think. And I think it goes without saying that, here again, it will be you that suffers.With a minimal of patience and flexibility I think you will find that the Flight 1 system, and the others that are out there, are pretty easy to live with.My http://www.fsd-international.com/dcforum/Images/twocents.gifhttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

[hangar 660]

>A what's with the part time job? Just as developer/programmers work for Microsoft full time, the same can apply to 3rd party developers if that's their wish!<...from what i understand this market is just too small to allow a team of 4 or 5 developers to rack up enough sales which would provide a full time living. The market has to increase dramatically for that to happen...just remember, the 3rd party addon market is a very small fraction of the total amount of copies sold by MS's simulator base product...too small a fraction for 4 or 5 men to take care of their families from a single release...especially taking into consideration how long the development process for each release takes them.either way (charging more $$ or invoking further antipiracy inconvenience to the customer)its going to mean a certain amount of lost sales, theres no way of getting around that INITIALLY...however, it is in my opinion that raising the prices will NOT stunt the overall growth of this market in the long run...afterall we're not talking about alot of money here...i feel that the inconvenience factor will kill the market long before a $10 price increase...worst case is that it MIGHT weed out the lesser valued releases/developers...but there are ways to overcome this as well (ie, releasing products that dont need 2 or 3 patches over 3 months following release)This market needs to grow....sorely...and current anti piracy techiques if left the way they are right now will shrink this market no doubt. The developers need to think along different lines, such as INCREASING prices and INCREASING quality/value/service at the same time. YES increase your prices, but STOP releaseing 3 mos too early on an unfinshed buggy product for example...make it right the first time...there are many small ways you can think of for a developer to increase the value of his product to substantiate an even higher than 30% price increase if he wishes.Piracy is obviously a bad thing, but its here to stay for at least awhile longer until a consumer convenient technology can be implemented...the only bright side to look at for a developer these days is to try and look at it as a way of getting your name and products exposed...you may lose the income from a few imediate sales but hopefully in the end it will bring some NEW customers to your door down the road.Exposure is the key to market growth...NOT antipiracyHopefully developers and consumers will BOTH make the right decisions in this matter after much contemplation, and we ALL will benefit from a much larger and broader consumer AND developer base in the future....my last 2 cents on the matter Dave

[Guest jason2112]

After the last thread of this type that started about a week ago concerning machine binding copyright protection mechanisms, I was worried because I was just going to reinstall my computer (hehe, the new AthlonXP 2400+ makes flying a lot smoother compared to the Duron 1000, I'm glad I upgraded!).A few days after the new install I can say that I had no trouble at all installing FSD, Flight1 and Dreamfleet products. I have not installed everything yet (probably won't, because FS2004 is on the horizon), but so far everything I tried worked without problems. It seems that I remembered to save all key files and keep all relevant emails, which is a must, of course.I would like to thank Flight1 and all the people involved for their great wrapper software, it's by far my favorite way of obtaining FS payware!Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

[Guest]

Hi Everyone,Remember, the anti-piracy scheme is targeted to the download market. Once CD's are available you can opt for that.For the internet (download) market, we offer the current system. The CD will be fully portable when it is released. So one should see that we plan to provide the product to multiple markets.Regarding multiple PC's, we generally do not care how many PC's you install the software on as long as they are your machines for your own use. The EULA is more restrictive, but we have to have that in case we need to fall back on it. And if we have to prosecute a pirate, we can do so based on the EULA, wrapper aggreement, and local laws. We have always been aware that flight sim users have multiple PC's.Regarding information from your computer... We do not get ANY information about your computer when you press the purchase or reinstall buttons. All we retain is the IP address. And this is clearly identified BEFORE you purchase in the wrapper.It seems like there is much to attack, when there really is not as much to attack that meets the eye. Downloads are part of our business model, and CD's are also. That is why we will offer both in due course on most products.Thanks,

[Guest]

Tim you are dead right, the honest customer is going to suffer unless they can help all of us in combatting the piracy and that starts with reproting to the developers whenever and wherever they see proucts being stolen.With out a hobby wide attitude of total intolerance of piracy, the customer will either have to suffer with some form of software registration or with higher prices.The general attitude of acceptance that piracy is something we just have to live with is unacceptable to me. We did't accept it when pirates roamed the seas, nor do we accept it when soemone breaks into your house and steals your TV or computer. When the honest customers get tired of putting up with higher prices and/or software protection then and only then will we an abatement of this problem.If the customers that are posting in the various threads really want to change things, then now is for them to step forward and set the example by saying I will not steal nor will I tolerate those who do.http://www.avsim.com/pages/robert/kirkland.jpg

[Guest]

Well Steve(FSD)I have bought stuff from you and flight1. I can tell you that your system while not as bad as PMDG and CaptainSim, it is not as easy as you claim either. Take for instance my brother who bought your Commander, he wanted to reinstall it and he had to email you and ask for another key. He will tell you that you were very nice and quick about getting it to him. Now if want to do that with the Flight1 wrapper all we have to do is push reinstall, point to the key on your computer and enter last 4 of the credit card you purchased with. That is it, you now have it reinstalled . Yes it has to be connected to the internet but I don't have to email you and ask. It is all automated with the Flight1 wrapper. I think it is by far the best system out there. I am not trying to bash FSD but I am never going to purchase from payware companies where I have to email just incase I want to do something to my computer . They say with the Flight1 wrapper it will die afterwhile and if you want to reinstall you have to email them. Well I have reinstalled the Meridain quite a few times because of hardware changes and still have not had to email them. I know that really it is coming down to me only buying from Flight1, Dreamfleet and PSS. I just don't like having to inform you that I am making a hardware change. Jason