Expectation?

[Guest danowat]

I have been reading all these posts lately, and some of it leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth.From a lot of the posts MS is made out to be this big bad behemoth corporation that does not give a stuff about its users.This is definatly not the case.The patch WILL install correctly, if you only follow the instructions.I am not sure what people were expecting from this update, but the fact that there has been an update means that the MSFS team are listening, and do care about the user.Bottom line is, MS have delivered an EXCEPTIONAL sim.Where is this life can you find a $50 product that can give you so much enjoyment?, nowhere.It seems that the ungreatfull/selfish feeling is growing, and I think thats sad.Dan.

[Guest Edam]

Microsoft is damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's ridiculous.

[JimmiG 244]

I expected the patch to fix all problems MS said it would fix. It did not.Readme sais:"Fixed Autogen performance degradation "My findings are that this bug remains. This is one of the fixes I was looking forward to the most so of course I'm a bit dissapointed. I tend to dislike companies that lie to their customers. This is why I dislike most companies :)At least the patch restores support for 19m mesh scenery and brings FS9 scenery to the same level as that of FS2002.

[Guest allcott]

MS says that the patch will install correctly if all the files are default, and in the correct place. There is plenty of evidence that is NOT the case.No-one's trying to make out MS as the Great Satan or any of that nonsense, but if their patch doesn't work as advertised who is to blame? The Man in the Moon?I think MS are getting what they deserve. No more, no less. No-one is exactly overwhelmed by the fps increase, few are actually convinced of the full fixing of the autogen bug, fewer still are impressed by such a long wait to fix a few bridges, and they've still missed some important ones. Finally, the installation is flawed on many users systems. And it took them all this time to do this?If MS can't make a batch routine work right, then who can?Allcott

[michal 44]

>My findings are that this bug remains. I think there may be confusion what constitutes the original bug. At least for me I was not "measuring" the bug by drop in fps or amount of stutter - inherently unreliable metrics. I was monitoring the size of the page file. With the bug the page file would grow and grow the longer you flew eventually bringing your system to a halt. Classic case of a memory leak using programmer's terminology. This is no longer the case after the patch. The page file remains constant - I verified it during a combination of a long flight and hours of slewing above the terain. My autogen is set at absolute max. So they did fix it - at least as far as I am concerned. One remark - I do use USA Roads, which may have some effect on the issue but I am not sure how and where.And I still think that most installation problems come from folks who did not bother to read install instructions. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2, Omega 2.7.90 (4xAA 16xAF)

[JimmiG 244]

"With the bug the page file would grow and grow the longer you flew eventually bringing your system to a halt."I think you're confusing this bug with the landclass+texture bug, which is a memory leak. Maybe they fixed it with this patch but I don't know. As long as you keep your landclass bgl files in a folder without a Texture folder it's not a problem anyway. If you do not, pagefile usage will increase steadily at maybe 1MB/s until you run out of virtual memory and FS9 crashes.The autogen bug never caused a memory leak. The autogen "bug" is just that some autogen objects (those defined in the default.xml file) would remain for too long. Those objects only get purged once you are over 20 miles away from them but they *do^* get purged, eventually. This is why, if you fly straight forward, you will never notice the bug, but if you turn 180 degrees, there will be a slowdown because the objects come into view and eat CPU cycles (but not RAM).Pagefile usage is around 400-500MB (depending on scenery, aircraft etc.) and stays there, both before and after the patch was applied.

[kerosene31 349]

My 2 cents (if it is worth that).I am happy we got a patch. I honestly never, ever thought we would get one. I do think the patch is way too long overdue. I understand that MS is a big company, and that fs2004 is a small product relative to the others. However, these bugs were fatal crash bugs, and crashes are the kind of things that should get fixed in a hurry. It isn't like these issues were nitpicky. That said, I don't get upset at Microsoft. There is no point. They provide a great product at a very reasonable cost. I don't know if any other company out there could provide us with the same kind of sim at the same price. Anyway, I think another factor is the great service we receive from our addon developers. Most of the bigger payware vendors provide excellent and prompt responses. On forums we can have a direct link to the developers of these great addons. When we require support, we often receive direct e-mails from the actual programmers of the product, often in a matter of hours. Obviously these companies are relatively small and can provide this level of service. On the other hand, with MS, the communication is not there. We have a one-way street as far as communication. We never get feedback from our problems. Of course, we can complain and get upset about it, but there is no point. MS is a huge company, and things are not likely to change. I don't attack them, nor do I defend them. I just accept things as they are, knowing that things are likely not going to change. What I do know is that I am happier with fs2004 installed on my system than I would be without it.

[Guest danowat]

Well, Firstly, I have a MASSIVELY changed install to the default, I have probably one of the most modified installation possible.I followed MS's instructions to the letter, and as such the patch install went without a hitch.The "autogen" bug, this one I find interesting, as it seems it is not a "general" problem, and as such would be very difficult to solve.I have never had this bug, before or after the patch, so the only thing I can imagine is that it is system specific.Whatever, I am pleased that MS are looking to improve on, what is a very good piece of software.Dan.

[Guest Kurt]

"The autogen bug never caused a memory leak."This is how MS explained it.http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...9.1_english.asp------"Overview of ChangesFixed Autogen performance degradation - Flying out of an area then back to the same area may cause lower frame rates. The problem was due to a memory leak and how Flight Simulator handled autogen objects. Depending on the specific configuration and scenario, some users observed significantly lower frame rates. The update fully addresses this issue and users should have full functionality of all autogen objects without adverse performance problems."-----Kurt M

[Guest glnflwrs]

>>That said, I don't get upset at Microsoft. There is no point.> They provide a great product at a very reasonable cost. I>don't know if any other company out there could provide us>with the same kind of sim at the same price. >>I don't attack them, nor do I defend them. I just accept>things as they are, knowing that things are likely not going>to change. >>What I do know is that I am happier with fs2004 installed on>my system than I would be without it. That's a very mature and commendable attitude Craig, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm just dreading the day that MS announces they're discontinuing the sim for good. Not only will I be sorry for myself, but just imagine, if you want to, all the whining and flaming that will come from the same crowd that is so unhappy with MS now. I guess there are those who's only happiness comes from dissent. Glad I'm not one of them.Glenn"If God would have wanted man to fly He would have given him more money"

[Guest j-mo]

Exactly! IMO, it's like the answer to the question "What's it feel like to be older?" "Great, considering the alternative." (I'm sure I've butchered this quote, but I bet we've all heard it).I'd rather have Flight Sim than not, and while some may consider this overly simplistic, it helps me keep things in perspective.All of my add-ons are freeware (free choice... payware is fine, too), and I can't thing of anything else that I've spent $50 on that has given me as much in return as Flight Sim! Yes, I have a laundry list of what I PERSONALLY would like that would make it better, but overall, I'd rather have it than not.I REALLY do not want to come across as "preachy," but for me, PERSPECTIVE is huge. Weigh the positives and the negatives. If the positives outweigh the negatives, keep flyin' and keep comments constructive. If the negatives outweigh the postives, and I say this with respect, decide if you want to continue using MSFS.I could go on a little bit more, but I might decide myself that I'm a little too "preachy."Here's to our common bond :-beerchug Respectfully,

[Guest]

Is Flight Simulator a great game? Absolutely. Has Microsoft done all it could do with it? Of course not. And MS isn't made out to be anything, it is a big bad behemoth corporation. Have you seen its business practices? And no, they don't care about the users, this will prove it:FS9 release date: 7/29/03FS9 patch date: 10/11/04

[Guest j-mo]

... and the proof is...?

[n4gix 4,947]

>"The autogen bug never caused a memory leak.">>This is how MS explained it.>>http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...9.1_english.asp>"The problem was due to a memory leak and>how Flight Simulator handled autogen objects."Oh Kurt! What would the programmers at Microsoft know? They should have asked Mr. "Know-it-All..."He's smarter that the whole lot of us, or haven't you learned that by now... Just ask him, he'll tell you so!:-ukliam

[Guest danowat]

>>"The autogen bug never caused a memory leak.">>>>This is how MS explained it.>>>>http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...9.1_english.asp>>>"The problem was due to a memory leak and>>how Flight Simulator handled autogen objects.">>Oh Kurt! What would the programmers at Microsoft know? They>should have asked Mr. "Know-it-All...">>He's smarter that the whole lot of us, or haven't you learned>that by now... Just ask him, he'll tell you so!:-ukliam I am assuming that was aimed at me.Firstly, I NEVER said >>"The autogen bug never caused a memory leak."I said that there are a number of people who had NEVER EXPERIANCED an autogen memory leak, there is a world of difference between the 2 statements, and my original statement was ######ized to suit the poster.Another example of the reason this hobby is going to die on its arse one day, the purile attacks and general bad air that floats around these forums.