Engineers and Flightcrew Slipped Up

[vc10man 732]

Last Friday's BA Airbus A319 emergency was created because maintenance staff carrying out overnight post-engineering checks and aircrew carrying out pre-flight walkaround checks failed to spot that the engine cowling latches had not been secured. As an ex-BA engineering staff, I find this news reportage as per the BBC website and now on BBC's R4, quite alarming, not to say what the potential could have been with a severed fuel pipe. Thank heavens plane and pax landed safely back at EGLL.

[elche 5]

wow.... How easy is it to miss unsecured cowling latches on an Airbus?

 

I have watched many a pilot do a walk-around, and have always asked myself - surely you could not have confirmed "so & so" is secured just by a quick glance.... BTW - I am not trying to judge here. Just want to understand.

 

I know I have caught myself out a couple of times on a pre-flight check, rushing, while going through the motions, looking at a tailplane way up above me but never actually taking anything in (if that makes sense?)

 

Diego

[AVSIM Admin 4]

This is an automatic message.

 

This topic has been moved from "MS FSX Forum" to "Hangar Chat". This move has been done for a number of possible reasons.

• The most likely reason is that the post was off topic.
• The topic could also have contained images or a video that were not appropriate to the original forum it was posted in.
• The images might not have been "illustrative" or "explanatory" in nature.
• The topic could have been moved because we deemed it to be more appropriately placed elsewhere.

Please ensure that your posts are "on topic" and contain illustrative images or videos as appropriate. Do not post videos or images just for entertainment purposes anywhere but in the screen shot or video forums. See our image posting rules here.

 

Members who continue to post off topic posts can be denied entry to specific forums in order to reduce and remove the practice. Your cooperation is appreciated.

[japascoe 98]

wow.... How easy is it to miss unsecured cowling latches on an Airbus?

 

I have watched many a pilot do a walk-around, and have always asked myself - surely you could not have confirmed "so & so" is secured just by a quick glance.... BTW - I am not trying to judge here. Just want to understand.

 

I know I have caught myself out a couple of times on a pre-flight check, rushing, while going through the motions, looking at a tailplane way up above me but never actually taking anything in (if that makes sense?)

 

Diego

 

The offical AAIB bulletin has a picture.

[GregL 26]

The problem is that, on the V2500 engine, the cowls are not a perfect fit. Even with the cowls in the locked position often a portion for the front edge of the cowl can be seen behind the nacelle covering.

 

It used to be a part of the walk round check to have a look at the cowl latches. They protrude downward when viewed from the front. Personally I found it easier to see them from the wing tip looking at the side profile of the aircraft.

 

Later, when tighter and tighter turn around times were introduced, the responsibility for checking the latches was given solely to the maintenance teams. A mistake in my opinion and I always used to check them. Obviously some of my colleagues don't. But then, they are not 'required' to.

 

I also check the cowl latches on the RR Trent and the GE engines on the 777 I now fly. Just habit I guess.

 

All said, well done to the guys for an excellently handled non normal procedure even if it did delay my departure! :-D

[n4gix 4,947]

The offical AAIB bulletin has a picture.

Yes, and I see from the picture that already what I was going to suggest has been done, to wit paint the inside of the latches RED so that they will be more highly visible, aside from the quite obvious "sticking down" condition...

[GregL 26]

The latches are an engineering 'do' and 'check' item so there are supposed to be two people in the loop.

 

One who closes the latches and one who checks and countersigns the latches have been closed. Even painting them a different colour won't help unless the crews crouch down and specifically check them. For that to happen they need to be included in the pilots walk round check items again.

 

It was just unfortunate that these were missed by so many people, the holes in the cheese lined up on this event. Don't forget that there are hundreds of shorthaul airbus flights a day out of T5 and this was one incident albeit a televised dramatic one (from a spectators view).

[Airbus Commander 563]

It is an element in the walk around where I work, we've always checked them on all aircraft types, I was under the impression that  it was that way at all operations but apparently not... Of course everyone has now learnt from this incident with it being so public, and hopefully this means that an incident like this never arises again, I'd hope any operators that didn't previously include this as part of their walk around inspection would have it down on the list now... 

 

Regards,
Ró.

[vc10man 732]

Amazing revelations by an airline captain right now on BBC's Radio 5 Live with reference to pressures from his airline hierarchy regarding saving fuel; how he would not let his children fly on aircraft unless he knew who the captian was; his concerns for some of the practices within that airline. All this follows the Nolan Show discussing that BA A319 incident. Interview also included that BA capt whose 747 plummeted over Java in that volcanic ash incident.

 

Worth hearing it as a podcast.

[ichundu 10]

Amazing revelations by an airline captain right now on BBC's Radio 5 Live with reference to pressures from his airline hierarchy regarding saving fuel; how he would not let his children fly on aircraft unless he knew who the captian was; his concerns for some of the practices within that airline. All this follows the Nolan Show discussing that BA A319 incident. Interview also included that BA capt whose 747 plummeted over Java in that volcanic ash incident.

 

Worth hearing it as a podcast.

can you provide a link? i'm listening to bbc radio 5 right now but they're talking about other stuff

[Airbus Commander 563]

Was this a BA Captain or one of another airline? I'm thinking of a particular Irish airline here?  :huh:  And if it is BA, that's quite the shocking statement...Didn't know things were that bad there. Seeing some of the memo's that the CPs in other airlines send around, I'm glad that all the CPs I've ever had to work with have been sound pilots with good common sense and judgement...

 

Regards,

Ró.

[vc10man 732]

can you provide a link? i'm listening to bbc radio 5 right now but they're talking about other stuff

I think the podcast will be available after the show as Nolan has moved on to a different topic

 

@@capt Ro

He did not disclose the airline but Nolan in a post-interview comment told his listeners it was a major airline and the Capt('Andy') was a short-haul pilot. Told listeners how if his flight was at 5am, it meant he had to be at the airport at 3am even though he was not on duty so it was unpaid, and how fatigue was a factor. Also made an oblique reference to that well-publicised US pilots who dozed off and went past their landing airport by miles. But his main beef was with the pressures he and his fellow-Capts had from above with fuel.

[ajpongress 467]

I guarantee every captain that heard about this story will be triple checking their cowlings before every flight in the foreseeable future.

 

Then, 6 months, or 2 years, or 5 years down the line it will become lax again until the next accident.

[GregL 26]

Just to clarify this.

 

Firstly, in BA, its the Pilot Flying (PF) who does the walk round, this could be either the Captain or the First Officer.

 

Secondly, although airmanship dictates that the cowl latches should be given a visual inspection, it was discovered years ago, during route checks, that checking them was being overlooked. As a result of this the decision was made to turn the responsibility over to Engineering and made the cowl securing a 'carded' routine. That meaning that one engineer has to close the cowls and the latches, sign for closing them and then another engineer has to check the latches and sign for them as well.

 

Sadly, in this case, it didn't happen.

 

During the walk round, with a torch (the only 'tool' we are allowed to carry), I inspect what I can. I am not allowed to open panels or inspection hatches (can't even reach them on a 777). Bearing that in mind I must be able to trust the engineers when they tell me that the checks have been carried out correctly.

 

Same as I don't, personally, guide every catering and baggage truck to the side of the aircraft just in case they dent it.

 

They guys lost an engine due to a fuel leak and fire then performed a well flown and, from what I hear in the company, a text book single engine approach and landing. Just a sad conclusion to a chain of preventable events played out for dramatization by the media.

 

The interview quoted above was not from BA. BA do not, nor have they ever, placed pressure on their pilots with regard to carrying extra fuel. If I want X tonnes extra then I take X tonnes extra, simple as that.

[Spam3d 54]

I was recently on a flight with easyjet from Barcelona to Bristol when the a319 was taxiing on just one engine with the PTU running. The cabin staff told us that the airline were trying out a fuel saving technique and that the hydraulics that we could hear were powering the aircraft during taxi. Its noted that the cabin crew had informed us to all take seats and ensure that our luggage was neatly stowed as the aircraft was full today. From this i obviously gathered that they were touching very close to minimum landing fuel estimate and opted to not put more fuel in to account for the extra pax load...